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Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Discussion on tenkara rods

Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Owl Jones » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:21 am

Seriously guys, it just may not be very economical to make them if they aren't going to have a big market. I understand that - but I can't let Daniel get away with saying a short rod is absolutely worthless! ;) ( Dead horse, meat hammer. Again.)

You may not want to do this Daniel, but if you're not going to offer a short rod - and again, I can't blame you, even if you can be convinced it's something that would work, for not wanting to get into a market where you could end up being stuck with alot of rods you can't sell - but would you, by chance be willing to take a stab at how an angler might take an 11' Iwana and modify it to be a 6 ft. Igottahaveit? I compressed my Iwana today in the backyard down to the top two sections and it cast even the 9 ft. braided line with relative ease.

It's understandable if you don't want to give advice as to how your rods can be modified into something they weren't designed to do - and of course the modification would be at the owner's risk.

I suppose you'd need a cap that fit on the end of whatever section was your biggest one and a cork or other type of handle. Can you buy the three top sections a la carte? I'm afraid as fly fishers we're always going to want to tinker with things. ;)

Owl
/wheels turnin'....
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby blatt1970 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:30 am

macsociety wrote:... would a 8' or maybe 9' 5/5 Rod work? Have enough length to properly cast a fly?
tj

:D
Very good question and in my my opinion it will work.
Before buying my 11' Iwana i made some experiments with a 8' crapie pole.
Compared to the Iwana it's just a piece of crap!
Even so, it, somewaht, delivers the fly....
So, at least in my logic, a properly designed 8' tenkara rod (maybe a 6' :mrgreen: )
will do the task and in tight places like the one in the picture below it would be a bless.
And since tenkara gear is so minimalist i don't mind carrying 2 diferent size rods to cover my needs.
Perhaps it works i don't like the idea to colapse the rod segments every time i need to go shorter.
Image
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Daniel @ Tenkara USA » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:09 pm

Hey guys,

I hear you loud and clear about your current desire for a shorter rod. But hear me out.

MY STATEMENT:
My intent is first and foremost to introduce "pure tenkara" outside of Japan, and not to come up with something that goes outside that scope to please everyone or increase my sales from every side (maybe a similar reason why most fly rod manufacturers haven't introduced miniature rods to their line). There are equally as many requests for a very stronger/heavier rod to target steelhead and salmon, but that is not tenkara. If I feel like I have developed just the right rod that is in the tenkara scope then I may introduce it, but for now I'd really prefer that people understand the advantages of a long rod for mountain stream fishing and learn how to use it. It is not because of lack of a market. If I were to introduce a 9ft tenkara rod, I can almost guarantee most people would buy it simply because that is within their comfort level (people get scared thinking of a 12ft rod for a small mountain stream) - remember that I have had to create demand for 13ft rods, and it would be easier to do it for 8ft rods. Plus, based on our current developments it would be easy for me to do. However, the shorter rods offered by the other companies, who do not know nearly as much about tenkara as I do, do not have the advice of tenkara anglers in Japan, and are simply trying to sell rods, are doing a major disservice for the introduction of tenkara to people here. In my opinion, anglers lose too much by going with a shorter rod, thinking that a small stream requires a short rod simply because of preconceived notions brought by western fly-fishing.

SOLUTIONS, IF YOU MUST:
I do understand the want for a shorter rod. A long tenkara rod is hard to use in a super tight stream. I have fished quite a few very small streams too, not often, but I have. In my opinion they are equally challenging to fish with a short rod and reel as with a slightly longer rod and fixed length of line (though the challenges and skills are slightly different).
My solution has been to use a 11ft rod with 1 segment collapsed and the hand holding it above the handle effectively shortens the 11ft rod to 8ft (or less by simply moving the hand up or even shortening to segments (this last one not recommended). To me that is the most appropriate thing to do when fishing a tighter stream while still maintaining the versatility and advantages of a long rod for when the stream opens up (or for fishing a different stream) and, so you do not have buy two rods.

Now, if you really want to modify your rod to fish a very very tight stream all the time, and you feel like a miniature tenkara rod is what you really want, here is very simple solution that I tried and works fine:
- Buy a fly rod grip (e.g. fly rod grip)
- Take the segments that you want to use out of your tenkara rod.
- Slide it onto the grip (you may have to file the inside of the grip a bit, using a round file
- Close the endings with a small cork or dowel carved/sanded to fit.
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Defiant » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:16 am

One way to justify a shorter rod could be to introduce a child tenkara rod.. The best way to educate the mass would be to target the youth.. The current tenkara rods you offer are simply too long for my son to control...
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Wupperfischer » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:29 am

Defiant wrote:One way to justify a shorter rod could be to introduce a child tenkara rod.. The best way to educate the mass would be to target the youth.. The current tenkara rods you offer are simply too long for my son to control...


I have other expiriences. My son started at the age of 5 with tenkara and he has no problem to handle a 11 ft. rod. Even my younger daughter at the age of 4 had no problems.
Longer rods than 12 ft. are an problem if they children want to cast and fish with one hand. Due to the long handle the rods can be fished easily with two hands.
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Daniel @ Tenkara USA » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:07 am

That has been suggested before, even through our support of FishyKids.org, however, as Ronald suggests, long rods really are not hard for a kid to handle. Especially the 11 and 12ft rods - I wouldn't recommend the Amago, which does feel a bit heavier, and the Yamame has a slightly fatter handle, but the Iwana rods are a delight for any kid.
I grew up fishing much longer rods. I'll ask my parents to see if they can find a picture somewhere, but I was using 15+ft rods when I was about 6-7. Plus, the rods we offer are much lighter than those that I had access to. I took a father and his 3 kids fishing, 6-10 I believe, and none had any problems.
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Owl Jones » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:33 pm

Daniel, when you were so young and using those long rods, were you tossing flies to trout? Or on a pond? I think a kid could handle a long rod ( kids here in the South do, with cane pole fishing) but precision casting and placement of a fly? I dunno 'bout that.

As for "pure tenkara" I'm not sure what the appeal is, but then - I don't get guys who will only fish bamboo rods, either! That's what is so great about fly fishing - you can do it however you want, making your own "rules" or none at all...

PS - How 'bout them Auburn Tigers! ( We were pullin' for Oregon though...)
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby Daniel @ Tenkara USA » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:41 pm

No, I wasn't casting flies at that time. But, handling a rod was no problem at all.
About pure tenkara, I want to introduce and share the traditional practice of tenkara, knowing others will deviate and make it their own but I will providing the starting place. If one is interested he can pursue that - in my view there is a lot that was learned and developed in tenkara, and it would be a real shame to not learn about it. There is a lot of depth to tenkara, much more than its simplicity indicates, I'm fascinated by the techniques and the way it is done in Japan, and think it has taught me a lot more about how to fish than I had ever learned otherwise, but that is just me.
Also, as an analogy, if one was to start educating others on fly fishing as lobbing a heavy nymph, indicator and 3 splitshots, where would that lead? There probably is nothing wrong with fishing that way, but that person would never get the concept of delicately casting a fly line, and so would miss much of what fly fishing is all about.
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby wrknapp » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:46 pm

I learned to fish as a kid with a 15ft cane pole, bobber, and worm and had no problems. An 11' Iwana feels weightless in comparison.

Randy
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Re: Hypothetical "effective" shortest and longest Tenkara Rod?

Postby CM_Stewart » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Jeffry Gottfried posted a very nice report on TenkaraBum about the fishing camps his organization runs for kids. The kids in the session he wrote about were 7-9 years old and all the kids caught fish on dry flies casting with a tenkara rod. From the photos, it certainly looks like the rods the kids were using were 13' Ayu rods. Take a look.

http://www.tenkarabum.com/tenkara-for-kids.html


(edited to correct ages of the kids)
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