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Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Discussion on tenkara rods

Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby itsjaywhatsup » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:13 am

The rod tip plug holder on the end of my handle barely keeps the tip plug in place. One is slightly better than the other, but one of the tip plugs falls out if you sneeze at it. It's so bad I keep the extra one in my vehicle and the one I actually use in a pocket or my strap pack.

Will the tip plugs break if I try to pry it apart a little bit to give it more girth or do I need to replace my end cap?
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby tsegelke » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:54 am

It isn't too hard before the plug will split into two pieces. I have not come up with a quick and easy field solution yet.

I was tinkering with mine with the idea of what if situations. I finally decided that Tenkara USA is awesome on Customer Service, so was just thinking of buying an extra plug or two.
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby narcodog » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:55 am

A little off subject but in the nearly five years that I have been using Tenkara I have never used the plugs. I use easy keepers and just wind my line on them. When done fishing for the day they go into the tubes. When I get home I stretch the rod out to let it dry, then wipe it down and it goes back into the tube, with line attached
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby dwalker » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:48 am

itsjaywhatsup wrote:The rod tip plug holder on the end of my handle barely keeps the tip plug in place. One is slightly better than the other, .....


Hmmm. Sounds like a QC problem with the size of the plugs or size of the hole in the the end cap. Or both or it could be due the plug shrinking due to low humidity as I believe it is made of wood.

I would try making the plug a bit larger in diameter. Wrap it with thin tape or a coat of varnish, paint, finger nail polish or even super glue. Or go at it the other way round, make the hole in the end cap smaller by painting something on inside. But I don't know what the end cap is made of and how well stuff will stick to it.

When the QC issues are all found and resolved I will probably order one of the new rods. But this is only the second QC issue I've read about thus far.

D
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby itsjaywhatsup » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:12 am

What was the first QC issue?

I might try hard as nailz if TUSA doesn't offer any solutions or replacement parts.
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby itsjaywhatsup » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:44 am

Well, TUSA is sending me a new end cap (no surprise, they have excellent customer service). Hopefully that will solve the issue.
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby dwalker » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:32 pm

itsjaywhatsup wrote:What was the first QC issue?

I might try hard as nailz if TUSA doesn't offer any solutions or replacement parts.


Ever read the bit when you order a rod where it says:
* There may be slight discrepancies in their extended length of tenkara rods.

Over a production run of rods you would expect some rods to be a little shorter than spec and some would come out to be a little longer than spec. As an example a 390cm rod might actually be 385cm or 395cm. or somewhere in between. 5 cm may sound like a lot but its only about 2 inches out of 153.5 inches for a 3.9m rod. + / - 5 cm on a 390cm rod = 1.28% error in length, on a 330cm = 1.5%.

Read Tom Davis' review posted in December. The Sato he tested, was 4 cm short at each length. The rod tested may have been a preproduction run rod. Not sure if it was a wide spread problem or just the luck of the draw with the Sato rod he received.

I would assume that him mentioning a larger than expected deviation of rod length from design length in his review would have prompted TUSA to tighten up QC on the production runs and now some rods would be a little long and some a little short, but even if all rods are short they would all be closer to spec length.

With a triple zoom rod you have 3 x the probability for errors to accumulate. So the QC has to be better. The rod reviewed measured 326cm at what ought to have been 330cm. Not bad but also not great. However, that is only 4 cm short or - 1.2%. That tolerance would probably be ok with a single length rod.

The problem was each extension was 4 cm short. That is instead of increasing the length in 30 cm steps, each extension only increased by 26cm. So by the time the 3d extension was reached the rod measured 378cm not 390cm. 12 cm or 3.08% short. And that is more than enough to have an effect on the stiffness of the rod. Though being short in the base length probably has less effect that being short in the tip length.

Normally you would expect random discrepancies in length some sections a little short, some a little long, some spot on. For example - If at the shorter length the rod was 326cm if the next extension increased by 32cm the 360 length would have been 358cm and if the next extension had increased by 30cm the final length would have been 388 cm. Only 2 cm short of spec. - .5%

Each length was only off by about 1.2%. More than acceptable for a single length rod. But with a triple zoom rod it accumulated to over 3% error at full extension because each length was off in the same direction.

Anyway, hopefully they have looked at this and are assembling rods with a mix of sections that are a little long with sections that are a little short. And end up with rods that have less than 5cm error at full length. It is possible, Tom mentions another make of triple zoom rod with that is 320/360/390 rod and it measured 318/358.9/392cm. If another company can do it. I am sure TUSA can match the same QC given the QC that seems evident on the rest of the Sato rod. :)

Cool they are sending you a new cap. :) Did they mention if it an improved cap or just another random cap off production line? Since you mentioned one plug fit higher than the other it will be interesting to learn if both plugs fit tightly in the replacement cap.

Geez. I think there is something totally weird with the view count for this thread. Earlier I noticed 475 views in about 15 hours. Later the view count jumped to 1528. :shock: I don't think there is that much interest in this subject nor that much traffic on this forum. :roll:

D
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby itsjaywhatsup » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:49 pm

I think the assumption is that something weird happened to my end cap, I imagine I will just get another random one off the production line rather than an "improved" one.

After reading your post I measured my rod. For some reason my measuring tape doesn't have cm so I'm stuck with ft/inches. At the 10'8" setting, measuring endcap to tip of rod (not including lillian) my rod is perfect at 10'8". At the 11'10" setting I am at 11'7.25" - kinda disappointing.... At the 12'9" setting, I am at 12'6".

The .25 inches short on the last "setting" isn't something I really care about, but the 2.75 inches lost on the middle setting is where I am a little upset. When the rod is closed it is 22 1/2 inches not including the tip plug and 22 3/4" including it.

If the starting measurement is dead on and the first setting is dead on... it seems there is a design flaw in the length of the 3rd segment, the one that has the 10'8" measurement printed on it. As soon as I pull that section out to get to the middle setting, I lost almost 3 inches. If they added that much back to that section of the rod, would it even collapse properly like it should?

Time to email TUSA again? I don't know if its better or worse that I lose almost all my length in one section of the rod.
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby dwalker » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:08 pm

itsjaywhatsup wrote:...
After reading your post I measured my rod. For some reason my measuring tape doesn't have cm so I'm stuck with ft/inches. At the 10'8" setting, measuring endcap to tip of rod (not including lillian) my rod is perfect at 10'8". At the 11'10" setting I am at 11'7.25" - kinda disappointing.... At the 12'9" setting, I am at 12'6".
....


Well I wouldn't let the length discrepancy ruin enjoying fishing with the rod. :)

There is always the disqualifier of :
* There may be slight discrepancies in their extended length of tenkara rods.
So it depends upon how you define "slight". What is too much: 1.2%, 1.5% , 2% ?

On past models I generally found the stated metric length to be the most accurate specification of the lengths I actually measured on my rods. And in general the the stated imperial measurement was just a rounded number that was close to the metric spec without getting into fractions of an inch. A number for people to use who are not familiar with or comfortable with metric. And a stated length that was close to the lengths of rods people were already used to thinking about. People in America were perhaps used to thinking about something being 12 ft long, and not used to thinking of something being 11 ft 8 3/4 inches long. Looking at the Sato though the imperial/ metric numbers seem to disagree more than in the past.

For reference. The Iwana 12 is listed as a 12 ft or 360 cm rod. But 12 ft converts to 365.76cm. ( 5.76 cm = 2.27 ") Close but just a little over 360 cm.

When I measured my Iwana 12 is was darned close to 360cm just a little under 360 actually. So I wasn't concerned that it was 8 cm or so short of the 12 ft length. It was only 2 or 3 cm short of 360 cm. And 3/360 = .8% short.

The Sato is listed as 330/360/390 rod. Implying that each extension increases by 30cm or 11.81 inches.
But that is not the step increase you find if you convert the imperial measurement printed on the rod to metric.

It is easy to convert imperial measurement to metric. Just convert the feet and inches to inches and multiply by x 2.54. ( 1 inch = 2.54 cm)

Printed imperial length converted to metric:
10' 8" = 128 " = 325 cm ( not 330 cm)
11" 10" = 142 " = 360.68cm. Really close to 360. ( 360.68cm - 325 = 35.68cm, not a 30 cm increase)
12" 9" = 153" = 388.62cm ( not 390cm and 388.62 - 360.68 = 27.94cm, call it 28cm, so 2 cm short of a 30 cm increase in length. )

Or looked at a different way.
10' 8" = 325cm
11' 10 " - 10' 8" = 1" 2" or 14 " = + 35.56 cm
12' 9" - 11' 10" = 11" = + 27.94 cm
Thus 325 cm + 35.56cm + 27.94cm = 388.5 cm or 152.95 inches = 12' 8.95" Real close to the 12' 9" specified in imperial units.
But - A bit different from 330 + 30 + 30 cm as expected by the metric spec.

Converting the spec in imperial measurement to metric the Sato would be a 325/361/389 rod to round the numbers up only a little. Or close to 325/360/390. Your actual measurements, rounded off would be 325/354/381 cm.

Your short length is accurate to the stated short imperial measurement. And the jump from the actual middle length to full length is close to accurate to the jump in length as given by imperial spec, a 27cm increase vs 28cm. It is the jump from short length to the middle length that is only 29cm and not the ~36cm increase that the imperial specs imply, but it is close to the 30cm increase specified by the metric spec numbers.

A couple of interesting observations is that 30 cm = almost 12 inches. 11.811 inches or about 11 13/16 inches. The imperial lengths should have jumped in 1 foot increments. 10'8", 11' 8" , 12' 8". So why they printed 10' 8", 11" 10' and 12' 9" is a mystery.

Also at the shortest length 10' 8" converts to 325.12 cm. You measured 10' 8" or ~ 325cm. Tom's Sato measured 324 cm. So both your rods were 325 cm at shortest setting. If TUSA relabeled the Sato as 325/355/385 or 10' 8" / 11'8"/12'8" both of your Sato actual measurements would be very close to the specs. Perhaps closer to being a slight variation from stated length. Tom's Sato at longest extension measured 378cm if compared to 385cm it would have been 7cm short , perhaps still to much to be called "slight". But 7/385 = 1.8% short of expected length. Or only 2.75 inches short. Which is probably seen as a slight variation from spec and more acceptable than being 12 cm ( 5.72") short of 390cm. Where 12/390 = 3.1% error.
It"s just human nature to be upset at getting a rod shorter than spec , yet no one complains when their rod happens to be a few cm longer than spec.

Oddly the imperial vs metric lengths printed on the Rhodo match within a fraction of an inch or cm and do not have the discrepancies printed on the Sato and is much more accurate. For the Rhodo: 270cm = 8' 10", 297cm = 9'9" and 320 cm = 10'6". The Rhodo jumps 23 cm and 27 cm in length.

The QC is lacking a bit from the design goal or the way it is listed by metric spec length. And TUSA ought to either improve the QC or re-write the specs to be more accurate to what they are actually building. However, I wouldn't obsess over it.

Most people have stated the Sato is a fun rod to fish with and quite capable of landing nice fish. Just go out and enjoy fishing with it. :)


D
Last edited by dwalker on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tip plug holder issue on Sato

Postby tsegelke » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:50 pm

How does the rod fish? That is what I care about it.

Interesting things mentioned here, but in the end, I would rather focus on fishing and my skills and enjoyment of doing so.

Sorry to be a spoiler, but I love my Sato. No one can change my mind.
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