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Hook Set....How Hard?

Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby albertyi » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:39 am

CM_Stewart wrote:However, once you add a line and slack and resistance from the water, I don't know if there is enough force in the opposite move of the rod tip to actually set a hook.


Not to mention when you finally move the rod upwards, the tip will dip down even further than if you had just lifted the rod and possibly give the fish enough momentary slack to throw the hook.

On the topic of wiggling tenkara rods, anyone else notice that (at least with an Ayu) if you apply the right power and frequency to wiggling a soft tenkara rod, you can make it S-shaped (full sine wave)... or do I just have too much free time on my hands? :P

- Albert
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby Karl Klavon » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:06 am

A good test for the sharpness of the kind of hooks you want to buy is to lightly drag a hook across your thumb nail. If the hook point catches on your nail and digs in, that's a sharp enough hook to be worth investing in for your Tenkara flies, or any flies.
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby Charlie Dog » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:44 pm

You know, this is what I like about this forum: knowing that there are others that way over think things. Lets see, rod up tip down,rod down tip up, rod stationary, tip over
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby dwalker » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:40 pm

Stan Wright wrote::)

I seem to remember reading something about setting the hook by pushing DOWN on the rod.
If you drop the rod with a quick snap, then lift the rod... the tip of the rod springs up and sets the hook.
More research needed me thinks. :?


Stan, I found a web page with the title at the top listed as " this is the secret of lantern fishing"
これがちょうちん釣りの極意だ! ( Kore ga chō-chin-dzuri no gokuida! )

http://ojin.nobody.jp/tenkara1.htm

Google translation is pretty poor but from what I could decipher it pretty much matched your description - shake the pole initially with a push downward, which lifts the rod tip. Followed by lifting the rod.

Also mentioned is that the technique requires the line be in 'tension'. ie tight lines. Probably easier when using the lantern fishing set up which has a long pole and short line of only about 1.5 to 2.5 meters. There also seemed to be mention of this movement being a technique borrowed from Kendo and another term that when I googled it I found some images of resonance of a pendulum. So maybe some reference to the resonance of the length of the pole. I think. :?

Image

Anyway, there could be some situations where the technique of initially snapping the pole downward, followed by lifting the rod will increase the success of a hook set.

After reading your post I did get out one of my tenkara poles and I could see the the tip does rise when the pole is first pushed downward. Probably works better the longer the rod. The rods for lantern fishing, with bait, appear to generally be as long as the longer tenkara rods or longer. I haven't tried it while fishing yet.

A typical lantern fishing setup from another web page " Introduction to Lantern Fishing"
ちょうちん釣り入門 ( Chō-chin-dzuri nyūmon )
http://teamoutdoor.nobody.jp/chochin2.html

渓流ちょうちん仕掛け ( Keiryū chō-chin shikake ) Stream Lantern Work ; work = trick or setup.

Image

fwiw
Tenkara is fundamental fishing fun
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby CM_Stewart » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:44 am

Cho-chin-dzuri may be the answer for people who fish the rhododendron tunnels and keep wanting shorter and shorter tenkara rods. Paradoxically, the longer rods may be much more effective. I think the 5.4-6.2m rods push it past the realm of tenkara, but it is still within the realm of fly fishing. I may have to get one to try it out - and the reverse hookset.
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby Anthony » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:09 am

I've done the really short line (about 6 feet or so) with my 12-ft tenkara rods on small rhod-choked streams. I found it to be pretty darn frustrating. The line has to be at least long enough to be able to reach the end when the rod is fully extended - otherwise you can't hold it tight to the rod to snake through the openings in the brush to make you're bow and arrow cast or dap. And when it's that long it's still pretty long to handle in really tight quarters. Also often you have to either collapse the rod or shove it behind you to bring the line in. This seems like a prescription for a broken rod. This kind of really tight tenkara can be done but it takes a very special level of patience; one that I don't always have! I reserve the right to use my short western rods on those streams (I hope that's ok). :D
Ebisu (now retired), Iwana 11'ft (with additional short handle - also retired), Amago, Ito, Ayu II, Rhodo, Sato
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby CM_Stewart » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:42 pm

I was thinking more of an 18-20' rod and wading up the stream, essentially dapping directly upstream, rather than trying to poke through the rhod from the shore. I think there is a Youtube video of a guy using essentially that technique on a small stream in Spain. Of course, they don't have that type of stream where I fish so wading upstream may not be possible either.
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby dwalker » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:56 pm

I did not intend to advocate using the lantern fishing set up. The idea I was pondering was if the hook set success rate would be increased by using the idea first submitted by Stan. Snapping the rod downward slightly, thus making the rod tip move upward setting the hook, followed by then lifting the rod as we normally do to set the hook.

Does that technique work if fishing with a tenkara rod using the normal total line length? That is a line length of 3m to 7m in length? Which would be a line length of 1x to 2x the rod length. Depending upon the rod being used.

Stan mentioned he thought he had read somewhere about using this technique. I found a web page illustrating just that idea. But that web page appeared to be talking about using the technique with a "lantern fishing" setup. A line of less than half the rod length. But would it also work with the normally used tenkara setup?

Clearly it would not work with a slack line. But if we are fishing using the often mentioned advice of " tight lines" would it be beneficial ? Maybe or maybe not. We don't have fishing seasons where I live. However, my fishing license expired at the end of the year. I will have to get a new license and give it a try and see if it works. The weather here has been more like mid March than mid winter. Just need a license and some time. :)
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Re: Hook Set....How Hard?

Postby Markpdx » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:48 pm

I have experience an interesting phenomena to me while fishing of late. I perceive this to be the combination of he hook used and the tip flexibility of a Tenkara Rod. I was using an Amago.

When tying my flies I prefer a smaller diameter wire for the hook. Two of my favorite hooks are the TMC 2487 and a Gamakatsu C15-BV Emerger. The TMC 2487 is barbed, but I always crimp it. Of the two, the Gamakatsu C15-BV Emerger has a much thinner wire in the hook. The metal alloy also seems interesting. The hook as flex to it, yet I have never straighten the hook on a fish. The other important attribute is that the thinner the hook, the faster it will penetrate tissue, over a thicker hook shank. This thing wants to bury itself.

The interesting phenomena I'm seeing is that if a fish takes my fly on either of these hooks + my tenkara rod, I hardly need to set the hook at all. I just turn my rod in the opposite direction than the fish is swimming. If the fish swims at all with the fly, the fish will set the hook. If you have someone hold your rod by the handle with the tip raised at all, and you are holding the tippet, and pull downward like a fish would, you will feel very little resistance. This seems to allow time for the hook to do its work, if it is sharp, and the progressive load by the rod will sink the hook deeper the more the fish applies pressure. I "think" this does less damage to the fish, than a jerk might.
This is also beneficial for protecting the tippet.
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