Sign In | Sign Up to Shop/Forum

Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle with?

Tenkara is a new type of fishing to the US, and information (particularly in English) is sparse. This is the place to build a knowledge base of Tenkara.

Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle with?

Postby Paul Gaskell » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:34 pm

Or maybe a better phrase is "what do you wish you could do better?"

There might be stuff that I can give pointers on and I am sure other board members would be willing to do the same too.
Paul Gaskell
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 am

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby Paul_Vertrees » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:37 pm

Casting! I am never satisfied with my own even though I consider myself to be very experienced at casting a tenkara rod. I'm also confronted with clients who almost always have no fly fishing experience at all. Getting their tenkara casting dialed in can be a challenge at times. It's very rewarding to see them develop and improve with their casting throughout a full day of tenkara.
Paul Vertrees
Tenkara Guide
RIGS Fly Shop and Guide Service
Ridgway, CO
User avatar
Paul_Vertrees
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:14 pm
Location: Near Canon City, CO

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby Paul Gaskell » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:25 am

One thing that I find is a massive "step change" in tenkara casting ability from "good" to "great" is getting enough speed into the back-cast that two things happen:

1.) The rod is still well "loaded" (i.e. bent backwards) when it is time to start the forward cast

2.) The line is straight or close to straight behind you

What normally happens (especially with good western fly casters) is that a nice positive "stop" and a slight pause before beginning the forward stroke allows the rod to unload - which takes a lot of the efficient and smooth spring effect out of the equation.

All of the above assumes that the caster already has a very short casting stroke already dialled (aim for around 15 degrees of handle rotation between forward and backward "stop" positions). The feel to aim for is a fast/brisk back-cast (to load up the slingshot) and almost doing nothing on the forward cast. This keeps the loop nice and narrow - whereas if you try to "push" the forward cast too much you tend to open out the casting arc too far and your loop gets correspondingly wider and slower.

Hope this helps - and I'd be keen to hear how people get on with trying this :) :)
Paul Gaskell
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 am

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby dwalker » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:34 pm

Paul Gaskell wrote:One thing that I find is a massive "step change" in tenkara casting ability from "good" to "great" is getting enough speed into the back-cast that two things happen:
:) :)


I learned to put a little extra zip on the back cast a couple of years ago when I first started trying to learn to cast a longer line. About 7 m. (23 ft). Extra zip and improved timing, ( pause) helped a lot to get the line to lay out fully on the forward cast.

One of the mysteries of my own casting is I've noticed some days I fish a stream or lake that is fairly open, no worries about canopy. My cast are pretty good all day, mostly landing the fly first on the water on every cast. Which it seems to me that trout are sensitive to. Great fun when a fish hits the fly as soon as it hits the water. :D

Then I go back the next day, using the same rod and line, the wind seems to be about the same as the day before and my cast are just awful. The fly rarely lands first, occasionally the line hits the rod and I end up with a tangled mess that takes several minutes to undo, or I end up having to cut the tippet off and replace it. My lack of consistency under identical conditions is a mystery. :?

The biggest skill I'd like to develop is the ability to make low cast that will curl the line under low limbs along the edge of the stream. The goal being to get the fly to land a couple of feet under the shaded area, not just at the edge. Seems a lot of nice fish lurk there to avoid becoming lunch in some bird's nest.
The biggest advantage thus far to my trying to cast the fly under the low overhanging limbs is that it helps bring new flies into my fly box because I leave a lot flies hanging on the limbs I am trying to cast under. It's not that I am never successful casting under low limbs. I need better consistency casting into these areas. My success rate is pretty low. More accidental success than success from skill. In your compilation video you demonstrated several techniques for casting into these areas.

I'm sure the key is practice, practice, practice, but practicing the wrong technique only reinforces wrong technique. Any tips for speeding up the development of these type of low casting skills ? :)

Thanks,
David
Tenkara is fundamental fishing fun
dwalker
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:23 pm
Location: W.b.g.V.

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby Paul Gaskell » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:18 am

Hi - I don't want to imply that I have like a 100% record in casting into these areas (and I would also ask forgiveness if I ever give a tip that is super obvious to you already!) - but a couple of thoughts of a way to get good quality practice are as follows:

Lay out 3 kids Hula hoops (or something similar) flat on the ground in a right angled triangle so that the shortest distance from the middle of the hoop at the 90-degree corner to the hypotenuse is just a little shorter than the rod.

The first exercise is to stand in the hoop at the 90 degree corner of the triangle and practice flicking the line (parallel to the ground and with the rod tip kept very low) so that it cuts right across the centre of each of the other hoops at the two remaining corners the forward and the backward cast respectively. At this stage, only do one flick at a time - i.e. one flick on the forward cast and let it land across the hoop on the floor then pick up and do one flick on the back cast and let it land.

When you can land the line across the middle of both hoops consistently then do a few false casts as close to the ground as you can before letting the line turnover and land across both forward and back hoops.

When you can keep it aloft and false cast indefinitely with the line travelling over the center of both hoops you will probably notice that the line is travelling in a flat plane that is the same as the rod (i.e. a true side-cast where, if you rotated the rod to the vertical plane, it would look exactly like a classic overhead cast when viewed from the side).

You can test this by starting off parallel to the ground and then gradually work the cast (continually false casting) and changing the angle of the rod by small degrees until it is completely vertical; and then going back down again.

At this point, you can start to have a lot of fun with your "parallel to the ground/low side cast" (which by the way will already be a great cast for getting right in under overhanging cover). The fun can be to get into your normal parallel false cast and then start to "draw" different shapes with the rod tip. So, instead of a dead straight path between forward and backward cast, you can start to draw long thin ovals with the rod tip. If the "hump" of your oval that is curving away from the ground happens on the forward cast, then the loop will travel just above the plane of your cast. Alternatively, if you draw the oval so that this hump is on the back-cast , then the loop will unroll underneath the plane of your cast/under your rod tip.

This last cast can be a great one for getting in under very tight spots - BUT it is important to maintain those "stopping points" that make the line fall through the middle of the hula hoops. If you try to "follow" the forward cast too much, your turnover will be spoiled and fling the fly up into the branches. It will also, likely, drag the fly off target. Be brave and keep your stops very short, this will let the full "spring" of the rod be transmitted down the line into a fast loop with good turnover.

Hope you have fun and let us know how you get on.

PS, playing with those ovals and other paths of the rod-tip on the back-cast is a great way of "manufacturing" back casts that you can steer your line and fly around obstacles with when you need to improvise on stream!

PPS, I too struggle with some days when - even under the same conditions - casting seems really hard!
I'd like to blame the humidity or barometric pressure or something....but I do keep thinking that "Masami Sakakibara probably wouldn't be struggling now!"
Paul Gaskell
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 am

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby dwalker » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:54 pm

Paul Gaskell wrote:..
Lay out 3 kids Hula hoops (or something similar) flat on the ground in a right angled triangle so that the shortest distance from the middle of the hoop at the 90-degree corner to the hypotenuse is just a little shorter than the rod.

The first exercise is to stand in the hoop at the 90 degree corner of the triangle and practice flicking the line (parallel to the ground and with the rod tip kept very low) so that it cuts right across the centre of each of the other hoops at the two remaining corners the forward and the backward cast respectively. ......

Hope you have fun and let us know how you get on.

PS, playing with those ovals and other paths of the rod-tip on the back-cast is a great way of "manufacturing" back casts that you can steer your line and fly around obstacles with when you need to improvise on stream!

PPS, I too struggle with some days when - even under the same conditions - casting seems really hard!
I'd like to blame the humidity or barometric pressure or something....but I do keep thinking that "Masami Sakakibara probably wouldn't be struggling now!"


Dr G.,
Thanks for the tips. I had to re-read it several times to get the image of the setup in my mind. Not yet sure if it is completely clear. That may require actually trying it. ( or watching your not yet made video :shock: )

Trying it myself will have to wait till a later time. As it is presently 23˚ with 5 inches of snow on the ground and more coming tonight. I do believe I can see some similar casting in your Tenkara Basic Techniques video.

http://www.discovertenkara.co.uk/about-tenkara/techniques-compilation/

At 2:40 Change of direction cast under overhanging cover and and during some of the cast from 7:50 to 9:50, the under rod tip cast and oval cast. The streams in your video are certainly similar to the ones I fish, especially the stream in the second half. Which are type streams where I would find these technique most useful. I spend a lot of time looking up too. Looking for branches waiting to entangle line and rod tip.

The type and weight of line used may make a difference in successfully making these type of cast.

And while undoing a tangled line following a failed cast, I'll mutter about humidity and barometric pressure, if someone gives me the "must be a rookie" look. ;)

D
Tenkara is fundamental fishing fun
dwalker
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:23 pm
Location: W.b.g.V.

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby Paul Gaskell » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:18 am

Sounds like you have some lovely streams D.

Below is a rough sketch of what I mean. The squashed ovals represent the hoops arranged in a triangle on the ground. The aim of the first game is to do a side cast with the rod parallel to the ground and to allow the line to land on the floor.

The pink line shows ideally what you are aiming for when you let the line turn over and land. In other words, if you can perfectly bisect each hoop with your line - you have done it right.

Image
Paul Gaskell
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 am

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby Paul Gaskell » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:28 am

PS the cast at 13:01 on the vid is also a low side-cast :)
Paul Gaskell
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 am

Re: Forum tenkara clinic: what things do people struggle wit

Postby dwalker » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:14 pm

Paul Gaskell wrote:Sounds like you have some lovely streams D.
Below is a rough sketch of what I mean. ..


Paul Gaskell wrote:PS the cast at 13:01 on the vid is also a low side-cast :)


Paul, Thanks. Yes I do have some nice streams near the family vacation house. About 3,700 ft elevation, many of them crystal clear. Unfortunately several also have didymo. The elevation catches the rain clouds and generally the water flow is good until late summer.

What initially threw off my mental image was when I hear right angled triangle, I think of the usual 3, 4, 5 triangle, which just didn't match up with the rest of the description. An isosceles triangle came to mind, but it lacks a 90˚ angle. Then I recalled the right angled isosceles triangle, which does match. A 90˚ angle with 2 equal length legs. Thus 2 legs about 4m out to the hoops, and the hoops about 5.7 m apart. That would match your sketch.

A friend recently emailed me saying he has taken up the study of Wild Trig, aka Rational Trigonometry. Maybe I ought to join him in learning about trigonometry without the use of angles, sines, cosines or tangents. :roll:

Anyway, the set up is clear now. I just need to find some weather friendly to giving it a go. ;)

I have made a little TOC of time marks of the various techniques in the video. Had a heck of a time making it too. The video would play fine to some mid point, then jump to the end and restart from the beginning. Probably due to the cold weather. Either ice on the phone lines causing connection speed problems or the cold has driven a lot of people inside where they playing online and bogging down connection speeds.

David
Tenkara is fundamental fishing fun
dwalker
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:23 pm
Location: W.b.g.V.


Return to About Tenkara

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
cron