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Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

A place to discuss tenkara nets. Techniques for making it, woods used, designs, etc.

Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby tnitz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:27 pm

I do apologize, I have no clue where all my angling books are. If I recall correctly, my rod finishing and repair manual discussed using white silk thread coated with rod varnish to repair bamboo rods. When done correctly, it would be invisible.

I will wait until it's dry to decide, but I may want to reenforce the "crotch" of the net hoop. I have seen rattan used, but thought I might like to try silk.

Can anyone whose done it advise on color and size of thread to use?
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby ToddW » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:58 pm

My experience with silk was years ago refinishing a bamboo rod. I used white silk thread to reinforce areas that were coming apart or weak. When I applied rod varnish the white silk all but disappeared, even the areas I had wrapped several times over. I was thinking of using the same technique for a couple of tamos I'm working on.
Good luck. TJ Weibel
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby Darrin Terry » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:38 pm

I'd say definitely white. I tried it when wrapping a 2wt blank last year using nylon and it only partially worked. When asking other, more experienced rod builders, which thread to use next time I was after that look, I was told to use white silk thread. I was told to go with gossamer thread as it would disappear better. I've a buddy that builds bamboo rods that I could ask for you. Just to be sure.

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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby goneflyfishing » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:46 am

I gave the translucent/invisible wraps serious consideration when I built my last fly rod. You're right on the money with white gossamer silk. However, the finish will need to be diluted with acetone to ensure that the silk really becomes invisible. There is a thread on the rod building forum about this subject: http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.p ... topic=7286.

At the end, I went with the traditional look since I didn't want to mess with acetone.

Let us know how it worked out and post some pix.

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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby Darrin Terry » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:59 am

I'm back.

I got a response from my friend, Pete. He says: "Silk is the way to go. Persall's Gossamer is good because it is so thin it really goes completely transparent. Persall's Naples will work, but it is more like a size "A". Little bigger so more prone to showing. I still prefer the Gossamer."

I think the tip goneflyfishing mentions is good too. But, test before you commit.

Good luck,
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby tnitz » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:02 am

Thanks all. It will be some time before the frame is dried, but in the meantime I will get the silk and try it on something else. Glad to know I have not yet completely lost my mind or memory.

My thinking on the tamo is that if I don't like the invisible treatment, I can always paint over the thread with black or red lacquer so in a sense I have a backup plan.
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Thoughts about invisible thread

Postby Daniel @ Tenkara USA » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:50 pm

Just wanted to share some thoughts about the invisible thread for the joint on the net frame.
I think thread works very well for split can bamboo rods because the idea is to keep the parallel pieces bound together while force exerted on them is usually in the same direction. However, for the tenkara nets I have some doubts that thread is the best way to secure them. I say this because the two arms of the hoop are exerting force in opposite directions and also outwards
Image
So, in my experience so far thread will not do enough to keep the pieces connected and will not add much strength to it.

The picture above is not a great example of a splice, there is not enough surface contact. I'd suggest increasing the angle and having at least about 1" of surface contact between the two pieces. Good nets do not have any additional reinforcements, the surface contact, with good glue and, if necessary, pins, should be enough for this. If additional strength is really necessary I'd recommend using rattan. I just finished my first net with rattan and it works very well and adds a lot to the character of the net. Picture in a couple of days.

Of course, I don't know enough about the thread idea yet, but it's my suspicion that it's not the best way.
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby CM_Stewart » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:23 am

Another thing to keep in mind is that the joint connecting the two branches to form the hoop is a scarf joint, and the rule of thumb for scarf joints is that the angle should be 8 to one. (For optimum strength, the length of the joint should be 8 times the diameter of the the branches.)

I do not have Daniel's experience in making nets (yet!), and that angle may be hard to achieve in narrow, flexible branches, so it may have to be adjusted. Longer is stronger, though.
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby Daniel @ Tenkara USA » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:18 am

Hi Chris,
Thank you for the "8-rule", I was not aware of that, but it makes sense. The net I bought in Japan for using, which I can see the splice and is a superbly well-made net, has 7.75mm diameter, and 47mm contact surface (about 6times). It's much longer than what I have been able to achieve so far, but a very strong joint. I have to learn how they make this part. On my best net to date I have only been able to achieve a 3X contact surface.

Yes, it's very hard to achieve - actually I found that splicing at an acute angle and achieving a very flat surface that is equal on both sides is VERY difficult. I assume there must be a better technique than what I have been doing, I cut at as steep an angle I can but inevitably must file the surfaces to get them flat and even.
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Re: Invisible Silk Thread Wrap

Postby Stephen McGowen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:00 pm

I deal with the splice problem thusly....When your hoop has dried to the form you want, lay the overlaping branches directly over each other and tie them in the correct alignment with widely spaced spiral wrapps of old tippet material, string, whatever. Then drench the area where you want splice with Elmer's white glue...don't use any other glue......as if your were making a cast for a broken arm. When dry, I use an Exacto razor saw to make longest cut I can directly through the thread - glue-wood sandwich ( inch and a quarter is my personal best). Then wash the glue/string off with luke warm water...Elmer's will wash right off with not much effort. Then align your splice and put a few zip-ties over it to hold it all together and let the wood dry a few days back in the form you bent the hoop to. When dry examine the joint and glue it up with epoxy, Zap-a-Gap or whatever water resistant glue you prefer, again using your bending form as a jig....in other words, align the hoop before you apply adhesive. Don't try to align the glued ends after you've applied adhesive...that way lies madness.Zip ties make great quick clamps and a loving spouse is a great assistant when trying to clamp all quickly. When completely dry, remove from the jig and drill a couple of small holes in the splice for pins made from bamboo cooking skewers or wooden toothpicks or whatever you've got. I find it too difficult to drill for the pins before gluing the joint. Some do...I can't get the hang of gluing it all at once.
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