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Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

A place to discuss tenkara nets. Techniques for making it, woods used, designs, etc.

Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby RodLineandFly » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Well damn... here comes another hobby that I didn't need :P

Awesome post Daniel!
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby bocskovitsm » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:08 pm

Hey Daniel,

I was very inspired reading about your trials and tribulations in making your own nets. I also wanted to share my experience with finding my first good branch to attempt making my own tamo net. As you are well aware, it took several days meandering in the mountains looking up into the trees to find a few branch candidates. Of the three I found, I soon realized only one may work. Here are a few pics of my first attempt. I still have a lot of sanding to do, but my net handle is starting to take shape with a 10" opening, minus the finish coats and net.

I made one minor difference in how I made the splice on hoop arms. My hoop arms were pretty thin, so instead of using two wood skewers through both pieces perpendicular; my skewer runs parallel with wood.

I started by cutting my angle at desired length to create 10" hoop. However, I used a small drill bit, and drilled out both ends to glue in a small 1-1/2" long skewer dowel, along with a stiff sewing needle for strength and slide the two arms together for a very secure and strong connection.

Michael

IMG_0489.jpg

IMG_0490.jpg
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby robbylepczyk24 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Daniel recommends wearing leather gloves while sawing the knot between the arms, i second this, though not for the reasons he states.

yesterday i cut my thumb and thumb nail with a tree saw, not much blood but was defiantly gnarly. :?
Tenkara: Advance Your Fly Fishing By Taking A Step Back.

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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby jasonkonopinski » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:23 am

I definitely know what one of my (many) winter projects will be.

Spectacular work.
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby arieger » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:55 pm

Seems like the last post was over a year ago...so I am of course behind on the times!

I have several branches shaped on a form and drying...they probably have 2 or so more months hanging in my shed before another step. I know that I am prone to mess ups...so since the time to make a tamo is not fast I decided to do a few branches...but also to dry out some small branches that would never work as a tamo but would be good to "practice" on. I did a "splice" two nights ago on a practice branch. I did it by simply sawing on an angle with the two branches tied next to each other with a hand saw. I then attempted to epoxy the splice joints together and hold them in place for 5 minutes while it set with a clamp and zip ties. Because there is tension on that joint I had a hard time getting a zip tie or clamp to hold the branch. I ended up steepening the angle of each cut, separately, to make the joint about an inch long...this gave me more space for the zip ties and clamp to hold the joint. Low and behold that worked. I then saw in this thread here Daniel saying he has come up with a method to get that splice joint even steeper and about 2 inches long or more. How :)?
I would love to learn a bit more from those more experienced on specifically how they have succeeded cutting the splice, and how they hold it together for drying. The hand saw I am using is a Dewalt so if the method I am using is sound but it is just the tool that is holding me back...let me know what tool will help make that cut very steep to get a longer joint.

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWHT205 ... t+hand+saw

Thank you,
Adam
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby dwalker » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:13 am

arieger wrote:Seems like the last post was over a year ago...so I am of course behind on the times!

..... I did a "splice" two nights ago on a practice branch. ...... Because there is tension on that joint I had a hard time getting a zip tie or clamp to hold the branch. I ended up steepening the angle of each cut, separately, to make the joint about an inch long...then I then saw in this thread here Daniel saying he has come up with a method to get that splice joint even steeper and about 2 inches long or more. How :)?

I would love to learn a bit more from those more experienced on specifically how they have succeeded cutting the splice, and how they hold it together for drying. The hand saw I am using is a Dewalt so if the method I am using is sound but it is just the tool that is holding me back...let me know what tool will help make that cut very steep to get a longer joint.

Thank you,
Adam


I haven't made a tamo frame myself. But till someone who has made one decides to leave a reply. I thought I'd offer an opinion. I have a little bit of talent for finding Japanese websites of people making tamos, the language barrier will be a problem, but maybe seeing the pictures will help.

First I think if you let the frame dry longer, with the the two branches formed into a circle of the correct diameter, there will probably be less tension trying to pull to two cut end apart.
(or maybe your branch is just to big)

Find a bucket of approximately the correct diameter and tie the two branches around it, or cut a circular piece of plywood of the correct diameter, cut a few holes around the edge to lash the branches to while it dries. A little under sized might be better. But if your branch naturally wants to take on a circular shape you may not need a drying frame, and just tying the two sides in a circle will work fine.

Secondly, I'd recommend you make the cuts with a fine toothed Japanese type pull saw. Or dovetail type saw. However, the saw you have may work fine.

Look on page 2 of this thread at the folding dovetail saw Daniel used. Or look at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. They offer several Japanese type saws for a low price. One of their advantages is since they cut on the pull stroke, the saw blade is in tension, therefore the saw blade can be thinner than with a western type saw, making a narrower saw kerf. Since you mention the DeWalt saw, this one would be similar to what I am talking about. Just be careful to only cut on the pull stroke, otherwise the blade may bend and brake, or worse you'll be injured when it breaks. Possible if you're not used to using a pull cut saw.

https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWHT20215-Single-Edge-Pull/dp/B00N12YYL0/ref=pd_sbs_469_20?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00N12YYL0&pd_rd_r=VZ7A96FTCVP4RSJPM96H&pd_rd_w=pGEQz&pd_rd_wg=VJiCg&psc=1&refRID=VZ7A96FTCVP4RSJPM96H

Since you're interested in making the saw cut about 2 inches long, Below I will list some links to web pages showing Tamo frames being made with joints of that length. Maybe they will help.

This web page shows a 2 inch cut. He keeps it aligned for gluing by pinning it with two bamboo skewers (that you can probably find at the super market)

http://www13.plala.or.jp/keisuikai9/tamowakutukuritaka2.htm

If you copy and paste the Japanese text below the picture showing the frame joint & ruler into Google translate, it translates fairly well. But the 2 important point he makes are: make sure the two sides will will be long enough to match the circumference of your net, using pi (3.14) to calculate the length and make the joint at a position where the two branches are the same diameter.

The next two web pages are from the same web site. The blog post dated about two weeks apart. (Nov 2010) At the top of the first page you can see how he has marked the length of the cut, and the approximate angle, with Xs marked on one side to keep clear what is to be kept and what will be the waste to be cut off and discarded. For the best match I think you will want to stack the two ends, lash them together and make the cut down through both pieces if you can.

http://ameblo.jp/toumorokoshi3/entry-11108521651.html

http://ameblo.jp/toumorokoshi3/entry-10723183436.html

Maybe this forum thread from this forum may be of help if you haven't looked at it already;

Tenkara Inspired Net - in Progress

https://www.tenkarausa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1757

Lastly, if you what to explore some Japanese websites trying doing a Google search with some of the following phrases:
( you never know, you might find a web page that might clearly show what you are tying to do)

タモ枠の作り方 How to make a tamo frame
タモ枠の繋ぎの作り方 How to make the tamo frame connection
タモ枠が自作方 Tamo Frame self made
タモ枠の製作 Tamo Frame production

A little vocabulary
タモ Tamo
タモ枠 Tamo Frame
繋ぎ Connection
枠の繋ぎ Connecting the frame or bridge connection.

And for course you can always do a Google search for "how to make a tenkara tamo", but most links will come back to this forum. Or to pictures on printerest that come from this forum.

Good luck,

D
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby arieger » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 am

dwalker thank you so much!

The image from the Japanese site where he has the pencil measurements etc. helped me a lot.

The main take away I got from that photo is he clearly does not both arms at the same time...he cuts each arm independently so that they simply meet and do not alter the diameter of the final hoop via the joint. If you cut both arms in one long cut simultaneously you are forced to either expand the hoop or contract the hoop (depending on which way you did the cut) when joining them... The steeper the angle the more movement you then need to do when joining...that is the tension that is created...not from too short of a drying time or poor shaping.

The next cool thing you helped me with is that link to the other thread in this forum where Daniel describes what Yoshimura does...how he free hand shapes and uses a belt sander to make the angles for the arm joints. Also later how he talks about using a tall stock pot for the steaming.

But without a belt sander I think I need to purchase a saw with a finer cut capability like you shared (thank you!) and possibly use the bamboo skewers if more holding power is needed while drying.

You helped tremendously so thank you thank you!

Happy Holidays all!
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby dwalker » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:22 pm

arieger wrote:dwalker thank you so much!

The image from the Japanese site where he has the pencil measurements etc. helped me a lot.

The main take away I got from that photo is he clearly does not both arms at the same time...he cuts each arm independently .....

But without a belt sander I think I need to purchase a saw with a finer cut capability .......

Happy Holidays all!


Cool, I am pleased to hear it was of some help.

I have seen pictures where the two ends were cut stacked. But didn't quickly see a good picture showing that method. Basically before the end of the top branch is completely cut away, it will leave a small saw kerf on each side of the bottom end branch, which may be more accurate than the drawn on cut line due to saw drift in the cut. It's a trick used with other types of wood working. If I had thought about it more carefully I wouldn't have suggested the dual cut method. But whatever is the easiest way is best. I didn't really reread in detail all of Daniel's post so I missed that bit. I was in a bit of a rush to find something that might nudge you in the right direction to find an answer your How question.

The main advantage of a belt sander is they are fast, but you can do the same thing only slower with a sanding block. I've been using Japanese style pull saws for 35 years or so. Once you get the hang of using them I think you will like them. Due to their increase in popularity today you can find low priced ones of that style. When I started only top quality ones made in Japan were imported, and the smaller lowest priced ones were $60 +.

Anyway, again - Good Luck with a successful completion of your Tamo project. Post a picture or three when you finish.

Merry Christmas,

David
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby arieger » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:35 am

dwalker wrote:I've been using Japanese style pull saws for 35 years or so. Once you get the hang of using them I think you will like them. Due to their increase in popularity today you can find low priced ones of that style. When I started only top quality ones made in Japan were imported, and the smaller lowest priced ones were $60 +.



Thank you!

No rush to answer...but since you have a lot of experience with these saws I would love your thoughts.

Beyond the Dewalt you found on Amazon I found the one Daniel has pictured and what looks like something authentically Japanese...wondering your thoughts on them.

Here are links:

Shark that Daniel pictures
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00004TBPU/ ... 4LFV9RMKMK

One that looks fairly authentic
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001G9ZEEQ/ ... ZGN3N9IJ4C

Dewalt you showed me
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00N12YYL0/ ... TEKTC9G1XI

The one that looks Japanese seems to be the most rigid. All seem to have a small kerf. Plus or minus $10 they are basically the same price so I would take your expert advice and go for it!

Thanks!

Happy Holidays!
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Re: Experiment in making a tenkara net, journal

Postby dwalker » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:38 am

arieger wrote:.
Thank you!

No rush to answer...but since you have a lot of experience with these saws I would love your thoughts.

Beyond the Dewalt you found on Amazon I found the one Daniel has pictured and what looks like something authentically Japanese...wondering your thoughts on them.

...


Probably any of the of the 3 saws you listed would do the job.
But of the three my preference would be the Dozuki saw - for these reasons:

Both the Shark and the DeWalt saws have flexible blades, they are designed to lay flat on a board to cut off dowel pins flush to the surface or other similar work.

The Dozuki saw is designed to cut straight. And it is priced between the other two.
The disadvantage is the support piece on the back of the blade, designed to keep the blade straight, would limit its use. For example - You couldn't use it to cut a thick limb off a tree.

You might want to consider one of the Silky saws.
They are great saws, the blades are not designed to be flexible. They don't have the backing piece as on the Dozuki saw so they will be useful for more tasks.

But they cost more. Take a look at the Pocket Boy 130 or 170 (= blade length in mm) or for a longer blade look at the Gomboy line (210, 240, 270 & 300, I think).

A fine tooth (17 tpi) would be good, but they are also available in extra fine tooth models (22 tpi). However, the medium tooth saws (8.5 tpi) also leave a pretty smooth cut.

Shop around for best pricing.
Silky Saws (aka Sherill Tree in N.C.) is the official authorized importer into the USA, but they usually have the highest prices. Silky Saws can usually be found on Amazon for a much lower price. Depending on which Amazon supplier is providing a specific model. The trade off is for the lower price the saws probably ships from Japan, might take 3 weeks to receive them. And Christmas time is the slowest time.

Anyway, I have several Silky Saws; Pocket Boy and Gomboy models. But only in Large tooth or Medium tooth models. For cutting fire wood when camping, etc. The Fine Tooth models are more for wood working. They will cut slower, make a finer finish cut, & might be better for cutting hard woods.

Here are a few links - as you can see prices vary a lot. Just a sampling of their different models.

Pocket Boy 130 / 170:

http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2/Pocketboy-130mm-Saw-1005#sthash.fxcP7Ltx.dpbs

https://www.amazon.com/Silky-Folding-Landscaping-POCKETBOY-342-13/dp/B0014C6QX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482569471&sr=8-1&keywords=silky+saw+pocketboy+130+fine+tooth

http://www.sherrilltree.com/tools-hardware/hand-saws/silky-pocketboy-170-x-fine-teeth


[Opps - It looks like I'm going to have to eat my words about much lower prices on Amazon. Last Dec. I ordered two Gomboy 210 medium tooth saws from Amazon, and they were like $15 lower in price than any place else I found them. Now with a quick look. The only supplier I saw on Amazon was Silky and the prices not much lower. It may be that Sherill Tree / Silky Saws complained to Silky Saws Japan about being undercut on pricing from suppliers in Japan selling on Amazon and put a stop it. Or maybe I just didn't look around on Amazon enough to find alternate suppliers that still exist. ]

There is plenty of leeway in price for a supplier in Japan to undercut Sherill Tree on pricing on Amazon if they still exist. Or maybe something might turn up with a google search.

On the Silky Saw Japanese website the Pocket Boy 130 Fine tooth saw list for 3140 yen ($27) but on Amazon Japan the same saw list for 1627 yen ($14)

シルキー ポケットボーイ130 Silky Pocket Boy 130

http://silky.jp/items/342-13.html

https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%82%A4-%E7%B4%B0%E7%9B%AE-130mm-342-13/dp/B0014C6QX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1482571547&sr=1-2&keywords=%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC+%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%82%A4130

If the Silky Saws interest you - look around at different models, different lengths. Sometimes a longer bladed model might be a better seller, and due to competition on pricing, it might be found at a lower price than a shorter saw. Price doesn't always go up with the length of the blade.

I think Lowes and Home Depot carry Silky Saws. Cabelas carries Pocket Boy 130s, but I think only in large tooth models, and they carry some of the larger saw models too, but their prices are or were higher than most other places.

And Oh btw. The blades are interchangeable. If you buy say a fine tooth saw, but would prefer a medium tooth saw for harvesting limbs. No need to buy a medium tooth saw. Just buy a medium tooth blade. Remove the fine tooth blade and install the medium tooth blade. The blades are still pricey but significantly lower priced than another saw.

Hope that helps. Shop around for best price, but get a saw that fits your budget. Your going to be sanding the ends of the branch ends to make the Tamo anyway, so having a super smooth straight cut from the saw isn't absolutely a necessity.

D
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