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rod flex

Discussion on tenkara rods

rod flex

Postby christianfishn » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:04 pm

So imsitting trying to get a better idea of what a tenkara rod feel like. I know they're different, but for a western angler like myself what wt rod would be most comparable to a tenkara rod? a 0wt? a 1Wt? etc... would it be fast flex? I know its different and that's what is intriguing me. I know there's the 5:5, 6:4, and 7:3 ratings, but how would a 0wt fast compare to a 5:5 in terms of bend and loading. Im just trying to wrap my head around it before i commit, Thanks.
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Re: rod flex

Postby craigthor » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:33 pm

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Re: rod flex

Postby tsegelke » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:57 pm

OK, so I am going to try and explain in western fly fishing terms. I am still convinced is the best way to choose is to get one in your hands.

Here goes:

Compare an 8 ft 5 wt western rod to a 7 ft or 9 ft 5 wt western rod, and then you start to get the idea of how the difference in length can play into it. A longer rod alos can offer more drift control further away from where you are standing.

Next: The Amago is more of your big fish, or heavier weight rod. Then is the Ito and/or Ayu. Then is the Iwana and/or Ebisu. The line weight refference does not work here since they cast the same weight/size of line, but the rods have a different backbone to handle fighting stronger fish.

Flex Rating: the 5:5 is more a mid flex or slower feel, the 6:4 is more medium fast or progressive taper, and the 7:3 is fast or tip flex.

I hope this helps start translating.
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Re: rod flex

Postby jd_smith » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:04 pm

The answer to this topic reminds me of the age old question of " How many licks does it take to get to the center of an Tootsie Pop...The world may never know". I hope that Daniel and his staff or somebody gets a handle on it soon though. I'm confident they'll find some other designation of their rods soon.

I think Tenkarabum has the easiest way to determine the rods so far. And to couple the flex e.g 6:4, 5:5, with the Common Cents system, it seems to give the best idea without actually casting the rod. IMO

Even if TUSA comes up with a new way of rod designation, it will only be for their TUSA rods. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this may only add to the confusion in the global market of all rods. It's going to be a tough road to get the Japanese on board to adopt the system, so there is always going to be more than one way (several ways) to quantify the rods. Again just my opinion.

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Re: rod flex

Postby Stephen McGowen » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:54 am

My experience , and the experience of several fishing buddies, leads us to believe that there is no comparison (or common ground) between tenkara rods and western fly rods. It is misleading to beginers to imply that there is .
My experience with 24 different tenkara rods leads me to believe that they are much more alike than different...the opposite of western rods. Lets abandon the search for a pigeonhole system as in western rods.
TUSA's advice about there rods is right on. Beginners should follow it.
Tenkarabum's common sense data base fills in most of the other gaps.
The only way you will enjoy tenkara and become proficient is to practice casting every day and to fish a lot. This simple method offers much...but sadly, no short cuts. Western fly fishing can be intimidating....tenkara is not. Most of western casting technique is not applicable to tenkara. Tenkara will quickly become comfortable with daily practice. Honest.
Tenkara rods refuse to be niche rods despite the desires of their makers. Practice and technique fill in the gaps....not another rod.
Also..... "you get what you pay for" applies to tenkara rods. Stick with brand names.
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Re: rod flex

Postby adventureR » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:14 am

christianfishn I'm guessing this topic has strayed from here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4135&start=10 and a few other sources away from this forum Craig linked to, and who knows where else. There's an answer somewhere in various conversations, maybe you can find it.

I think it's difficult to compare the line guided western fly rod and Tenkara rod w/ it's line attached to the Lillian. Almost like stretching out the western fly rod and attaching the line to the tip. This if you can imagine turns it into something else. Also so many differences in western manufacturers and Tenkara rod manufactures too.
I have only casted three Tenkara rods.
7:3 Yamame my favorites
6:4 11' Iwana wife's
5:5 Ayu old style (funny saying that already), feels like cheating it casts so well.

They are all very nice, and I enjoy fishing with all of them. They all seem quite nice in different ways. I think not knowing much about the different flex in other rods for some time only using my Yamame gives me a little slow but steady info on this. At a certain point differences in rods from the same production line will eventually have differences show up that will make them function slightly different. Weight, flex, length etc....
What I'm curious about is just how far is everyone going with this.
The 7:3 index tells me something I've got a feel for personally. If telling someone about this measurement the word firm comes to mind. But people searching for advise and a scale to measure by won't have a clue about the feel I've developed, having never developed this feel themselves. The thing that should be considered with a rating system is it's only a reference. Unless everyone can afford scientifically calibrated fishing tools to the tenth decimal point.
The _:_ rating seems to be a good reference, add TenkaraBum using the common cents system. Showing a view of how the rods load. And I can't think of a better combination to base a rod choice on. I agree with trying out the rods personally will really tell the tale. But this scale should be approached as though we don't have the feel for the different rods. When I first joined the forum I asked about which rod would work best for me and was asked what size & species of fish I run into most often. This is how I started. The answer should be just to keep this simple!
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Re: rod flex

Postby Tenkara Guides » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:15 am

Stephen McGowen wrote:My experience , and the experience of several fishing buddies, leads us to believe that there is no comparison (or common ground) between tenkara rods and western fly rods. It is misleading to beginers to imply that there is .
My experience with 24 different tenkara rods leads me to believe that they are much more alike than different...the opposite of western rods. Lets abandon the search for a pigeonhole system as in western rods.
TUSA's advice about there rods is right on. Beginners should follow it.
Tenkarabum's common sense data base fills in most of the other gaps.
The only way you will enjoy tenkara and become proficient is to practice casting every day and to fish a lot. This simple method offers much...but sadly, no short cuts. Western fly fishing can be intimidating....tenkara is not. Most of western casting technique is not applicable to tenkara. Tenkara will quickly become comfortable with daily practice. Honest.
Tenkara rods refuse to be niche rods despite the desires of their makers. Practice and technique fill in the gaps....not another rod.
Also..... "you get what you pay for" applies to tenkara rods. Stick with brand names.


That is some good advice. The ebay rods that sell for 50-80 bucks are total shit. We test and evaluate rods from all over the world and have tested just about everything out there. We are now testing rods for one Japanese rod company. For non-Japanese made rods, Tenkara USA builds the best rods. Great customer service, warranty, and spare parts if needed.

Here is some free professional tenkara guide advice. Get a 12 ft Iwana, a spool of 3.5 or 4.0 level line, a spool of 5X tippet, use any flies you already have and just go have fun. Use that rod for at least one season before you start adding rods to your collection.

Get a good handle on basic skills before jumping around to other rod models. We give that advice to almost every client we take out and they paid $395.00 to get that advice.

Tenkara is it's own art, it does not compare directly to any other form of fly fishing. It is intuitive, instinctual, and deceptively simple. Don't waste time and energy trying to compare it to what you know. Do what we all did, buy a rod and line and jump into the unknown.
Trust me, you will have fun.

John
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Re: rod flex

Postby Skinhead » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:48 am

Tenkara Guides wrote:
Stephen McGowen wrote:My experience , and the experience of several fishing buddies, leads us to believe that there is no comparison (or common ground) between tenkara rods and western fly rods. It is misleading to beginers to imply that there is .
My experience with 24 different tenkara rods leads me to believe that they are much more alike than different...the opposite of western rods. Lets abandon the search for a pigeonhole system as in western rods.
TUSA's advice about there rods is right on. Beginners should follow it.
Tenkarabum's common sense data base fills in most of the other gaps.
The only way you will enjoy tenkara and become proficient is to practice casting every day and to fish a lot. This simple method offers much...but sadly, no short cuts. Western fly fishing can be intimidating....tenkara is not. Most of western casting technique is not applicable to tenkara. Tenkara will quickly become comfortable with daily practice. Honest.
Tenkara rods refuse to be niche rods despite the desires of their makers. Practice and technique fill in the gaps....not another rod.
Also..... "you get what you pay for" applies to tenkara rods. Stick with brand names.


That is some good advice. The ebay rods that sell for 50-80 bucks are total shit. We test and evaluate rods from all over the world and have tested just about everything out there. We are now testing rods for one Japanese rod company. For non-Japanese made rods, Tenkara USA builds the best rods. Great customer service, warranty, and spare parts if needed.

Here is some free professional tenkara guide advice. Get a 12 ft Iwana, a spool of 3.5 or 4.0 level line, a spool of 5X tippet, use any flies you already have and just go have fun. Use that rod for at least one season before you start adding rods to your collection.

Get a good handle on basic skills before jumping around to other rod models. We give that advice to almost every client we take out and they paid $395.00 to get that advice.

Tenkara is it's own art, it does not compare directly to any other form of fly fishing. It is intuitive, instinctual, and deceptively simple. Don't waste time and energy trying to compare it to what you know. Do what we all did, buy a rod and line and jump into the unknown.
Trust me, you will have fun.

John


I'd definitely go along with that. I too am new to Tenkara and did exactly that. I bought a 12' Iwana and a 10' traditional line, tied some Sakasa Kebari and jumped in with both feet. I also bought the 9'3" handle for the Iwana.....oh, and a Yamame, and a 13' traditional line and I am spinning up my own Singaporean lines. I do have a bit of an addictive personality, as 2 ex wives and 40(ish) rods, 30(ish) reels will attest to :lol: . Tenkara has awakened an enthusiasm that I haven't felt since I was a kid 40 odd years ago. Jump in and enjoy.
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Re: rod flex

Postby Jason Klass » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:03 am

The original question was about what a Tenkara rod feels like. I don't think there is any rating system that can convey this (especially since feel is so subjective). The only way to feel something is to get it in your hands. This is just another reason why we need more brick and mortar Tenkara dealers.
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Tenkara USA Rods: Amago, Ayu, Ayu Series II, Ebisu, Ito, Iwana 11', Iwana 12', Rhodo, Sato, Yamame.
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Re: rod flex

Postby Heli911 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Ok, I'll give you a straight answer that you were looking for. I cast the ito, all 14'7" of it. To me it felt like a 3wt slow action that is 14'7" long and weighs hardly anything. Very soft. I'm expecting to get attacked for this statement. However I wondered the same thing before I got to cast a rod. I hope that helps.
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