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Counter balance?

Discussion on tenkara rods

Re: Counter balance?

Postby Anthony » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:13 am

GregM wrote:Anthony,
This question may be to late to answer....

Do you have any idea of how many feet of tape you used when you wrapped the handle?

I'm considering ordering some cork tape (posted in the Amago Handle thread) but would like some real world knowledge to estimate with. (Wrapping a single pass with a cloth tape 1" wide I get 3'.)

Thanks.


The tape that I used was 41" long and 1" wide - you can see that I overlapped wraps though.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby GregM » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:07 pm

Anthony - Thanks.

I'll go for 20' of 1/16" and do a double wrap to give me another 1/4" in diameter.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby Karl Klavon » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:50 pm

I super glued a cut down rubber stool/table leg foot to the metal butt cap on my Amago rod, then I filed the diameter of the rubber foot down enough so that it would snugly fit in the rod tube with the rod in the rod sock. This made the rod a little longer and had a slight counter balancing effect on the rod, plus it gives a better nonskid surface to the butt cap and keeps it from getting scratched up in normal use.

The metal butt cap could be drilled out and refilled with melted lead, which would be a little unsightly but the rubber butt cap would hide what was done from sight, with a significant jump in counter balance weight being gained. Since the weight is being added behind your hand on the rod, I doubt that there would be any negative affect to the rod's casting action.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby tpalka » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:50 pm

After fishing tenkara exclusively for the almost past two years, I spent the past month fishing just western style. I was on a lake fishing from a stand-up board or else on small tight creeks with lots of overhanging brush. It was comfortable and my hand never got tired. An issue for me, as gripping too much caused a lot of pain and I ended up having surgery for it.

Now that I'm back to Colorado, I'm back to fishing tenkara and I noticed how much it tired my hand. I'd like to try counterbalancing the rod better, and am wondering if anyone had new ideas/implementations.

My best counter-balance so far was to remove the cap, and to instead use a grade-8 biggest bolt I could fit inside the handle section, with a dozen or so big heavy washers on it. I duct-taped the whole thing together. Ugly... but it balanced better.

Two ideas I'm considering: using the rubber cap for table legs / walkers and filling it with the washers. Or a smashed up lead weight sinker. Or looking for 2" long sections of something heavy that I can tape around the butt of the rod. Anyone tried this?

Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks,

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Re: Counter balance?

Postby jd_smith » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:04 pm

tpalka wrote:After fishing tenkara exclusively for the almost past two years, I spent the past month fishing just western style. I was on a lake fishing from a stand-up board or else on small tight creeks with lots of overhanging brush. It was comfortable and my hand never got tired. An issue for me, as gripping too much caused a lot of pain and I ended up having surgery for it.

Now that I'm back to Colorado, I'm back to fishing tenkara and I noticed how much it tired my hand. I'd like to try counterbalancing the rod better, and am wondering if anyone had new ideas/implementations.

My best counter-balance so far was to remove the cap, and to instead use a grade-8 biggest bolt I could fit inside the handle section, with a dozen or so big heavy washers on it. I duct-taped the whole thing together. Ugly... but it balanced better.

Two ideas I'm considering: using the rubber cap for table legs / walkers and filling it with the washers. Or a smashed up lead weight sinker. Or looking for 2" long sections of something heavy that I can tape around the butt of the rod. Anyone tried this?

Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks,

tom.


Have you seen this little setup? Or maybe this or this. They look pretty simple and their specific design is to add counterbalance. First one looks easy enough for a improvised DIY buy getting an appropriate sized rubber cane or crutch foot and putting an appropriate amount of lead weights into it and fitting this onto the rod butt. The one from Bass Pro looks like the real deal by tapping an appropriate sized threaded hole in the TUSA butt cap to make a custom fit.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby tpalka » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:09 am

Thanks, JD! I saw one of the butt-cap weights, but you found more. That was one of the approaches I was going to play with, DIY for starters. The other links look great, give me some more ideas. Thanks!
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby adventureR » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:46 am

I cast with my elbow on my knee usually while sitting in my kayak. If I try to get deep under an over hanging tree and extend my arm way out for extra reach fatigue will soon follow after many casts. I find switching left and right casting helps with fighting fatigue during bad form casts. I realize the counter balance is the question. Casting w/ the index finger on the opposite side of the handle like slinging a web like Spider-Man can also work different muscle/tendon groups. Might help w/ discomfort too.

Here's a set up that would help made from stuff laying around. It should help finding the right balance. I think a smooth contoured feel should be part of a custom balanced system. A large wooden Oak ball at the end of the handle is what I'd try and make if the handle comfort was in question. I used a bit of drift wood to make an end cap. The metal threads of the handle easily cut threads into the I'm guessing Catalpa wood. Carving the wood to the right size and then threading it into the handle might make a nicer plug for holding washers or being the desired weight for balance. A temp setup and scale may be the way to go. Then come back w/ a more custom design.

Image

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Making such an addition to the rod I think one should also consider line management.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby GregM » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:19 am

This article http://tetontenkara.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-does-this-rod-feel-tip-heavy-rod.html by Tom Davis at Teton Tenkara shows much weight has to be added to get a rod "balanced".

Adding an "extension" off the butt to get some mechanical advantage is the only way to reduce the weight to something manageable.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby jd_smith » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:21 am

tpalka wrote:Thanks, JD! I saw one of the butt-cap weights, but you found more. That was one of the approaches I was going to play with, DIY for starters. The other links look great, give me some more ideas. Thanks!


Maybe try one of the shorter rods or a lighter rod in a comparable length.

GregM wrote:This article http://tetontenkara.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-does-this-rod-feel-tip-heavy-rod.html by Tom Davis at Teton Tenkara shows much weight has to be added to get a rod "balanced".

Adding an "extension" off the butt to get some mechanical advantage is the only way to reduce the weight to something manageable.


I agree with Tom and you, Greg. I wish that Tom would have done the same test also with the fulcrum point at the top of the grip to show the results of a changed gripping location. Extending the weight away from the gripping location as you've mentioned is the only way to counter the tip's inertia (swing weight).

I think the idea of trying to "balance" a tenkara rod at the handle is not a practical objective. However changing the tips inertia (swing weight) against the fulcrum (hand) would be reasonable.

If a person's common gripping location is at the butt of the handle, then I would suspect no practical amount of weight could counter the tip's inertia without adding a weighted extension.

I also feel that adding an extension to the rod would compromise someone's Tenkara casting and fishing techniques.
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Re: Counter balance?

Postby pechelman » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:19 am

cool ideas

I think I'd just be mindful of adding weight to the bottom of the blank and engaging those threads that are cut in the graphite. Could end up cracking there, so just be careful.

Also, if you get tired, dont be afraid to change\turn your grip 90 degrees so you're sort of pinching the rod rather than supporting with an extended index. (which can be very fatiguing)
Similarly, going to a "western" grip for a while can help.


I guess I'm weird, but am I the only one who actually likes a tip heavy rod?
Something about it just helps keep me awake or something in actively managing my drifts with longer lines. For fishing small pocket water/streams with short lines I prefer less tip weighted feel, say more like an ito extended or sukei fully extended vs the amago.

speaking about heavy tip weighted, I regularly fish a fully extended 53MF for hours and really like it. But like I said, I'm weird, and I'm certain im in the minority on that rod.
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