I mostly fish small streams for small trout and normally fish a #12 barbless sakasa kebari. For those of you who fish larger flies (like #8), do you ever have problems with the larger hook causing more damage to smaller fish (i.e. the hook going through their eye or brain)? I have tied some larger kebari but am afraid to use them because they might cause more damage to the fish.

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My blog: Tenkara Talk
Tenkara USA Rods: Amago, Ayu, Ayu Series II, Ebisu, Ito, Iwana 11', Iwana 12', Yamame
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Let me start by saying I am very pleased that we're having a discussion about conservation. Hats off to Jason and everyone else that raise such questions, use barbless hooks, etc.

I frequently use size 8 kebari. Though I think the theoretical answer to your question must be "yes", I just haven't had it pan out on the water. I have never hooked a fish through the eye or other significant organ with a size 8. I have hooked fish in the eye or gill with smaller sizes (14,16). These are exceedingly rare cases. I'm sure I will eventually experience a bad hookset with a size 8, but my not-so-scientific empiric evidence to date seems to suggest there's no significant increased risk of a bad hookset with a size 8 hook.

What I did notice when I started to fish size 8 kebari was the amount of lip and jaw damage done. This was directly proportional to the gauge of the hook. I was originally using TMC 2457 barbless caddis hooks. They are 2x heavy gauge. I very, very quickly stopped using them. I now exclusively use Gamakatsu C12U barbless caddis hooks for my kebari. They have a much thinner gauge. I tried even thinner gauges, but found they bent easily in larger sizes.

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Rob Worthing
rob@tenkaraguides.com

I agree with Rob that it could happen. But, I also think it will happen nearly as often as a smaller fly. I have hooked one back a while ago with a size 14 that went through the fish's eye - unfortunately it was very messy because it was a barbed hook. I also hooked a small trout once with a size 10 hook that was instantly killed with the hook going through the brain of the fish, it was such a bizarre occurrence though, made me feel awful. Haven't had the problem yet with a size 8.

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About me and Tenkara USA

While I have caught a fish where the hook got its eye, it was not one of the many small trout I have caught. Or the 3-8 inch blue gill which have taken clousers to 4-inches in length. It was a 19-inch rainbow hen which took a #12 or #14 San Juan Worm. I still don't know how the hook managed to turn that far while under tension. I think to some extent certain hooks are more likely to have this issue. The Tiemco 37160 hook is one I have been told can roll into the eye by going through from within the mouth. This has not happened for me but I don't use flies tied on this hook often and only when targeting large fish as an anchor fly for multi fly rigs. I have a friend who for years now will often spend time chasing the smallest trout he can. Tanago if you will. I don't know whether he knows of Tanago although I sent him a PM earlier today about it.

At this point I just don't think it's all that common though it obviously happens. I've not had this happen yet with a kebari.

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2012 Days Fishing - 18/366
Iwana : Series I : 11 ft ◊ Iwana : Series II : 12 ft

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<{(((((><{

"The reverse side also has a reverse side"

Fishing is a blood sport. Barbless, catch and release, what ever....sooner or later you are going to kill some fish.
No protein is wasted in nature. If you don't eat them, something else will.
Mea culpa.

Good point Stephen.

I've always told people " I love to fish...I don't love fish" But I do like fish...they taste great. If I loved them I wouldn't fish.

JD

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"The reverse side also has a reverse side"

A. fish mountain streams is beautiful
Two. fish mountain streams tasty (if you know how to cook)
Three. fish mountain streams ecologically clean.
4. of course. be fishing - caught - was released.
Five. certainly have to catch a big fish in the creek. for the size of flies to be fit. I am surprised as you all enjoy the small size and hook type Shrimp. And the theme of small hooks and small flies are constantly being discussed on the forum. It's almost like a fashion of this forum. You all admire Ishigaki, but do not support his type flies (size 10-12). In his first DVD Ishigaki said that the size and shape depends on the fly like a fish hooked (where in the mouth).
Five. need to start fishing with a size 12, then if you do not get caught in a reduced size or ... If caught small fish to increase the size of a hook on.
6. The rule which operates always on a mountain stream - first caught the biggest fish (in the pit). if you catch small fish first, then there is no longer a big (someone was ahead of you and catch it.)
7. Rule 2 - the smaller stream, the larger the fly (and we must not be afraid).



Eight. Still tasty fish.

You can believe me or not believe. I will not argue. This axiom of fish in mountain streams.

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Sergey
Vladivostok
Russia

I was one of those guides who used small 22's and smaller on the Provo during the winter. After discovering tenkara my hook sized gradually increased. Then I wanted to fish tenkara the way it is fished by traditional Japanese tenkara anglers. I tried kebari tied in sizes from 16 to 8 and finally settled on a size 10. I did eye hook a few fish with the 16 but have only hook fish in the mouth with the larger size 10. I have also notice that I can track the larger fly under the water and even watch the take. This is a very exciting experience and on that note I rarely see fish turn there nose at the fly. Anyway just my take on the issue and mahalo Jason for another great topic.

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Hanapa'a
BC
www.tenkaraelevated.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/TenkaraElev ... ture=guide

Here is the hook that I feel works the best for me.

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Hanapa'a
BC
www.tenkaraelevated.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/TenkaraElev ... ture=guide