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furled line length for Amago?

Discussion of tenkara lines, tippets, etc...

furled line length for Amago?

Postby achilles38 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:03 pm

I'm looking at trying a furled line for my Amago since I've only used level line and I want to see which I like better. What is a good length to get? It will mainly be for trout, but I occasionally fish for bass and bluegill /crappie since I'm in Southern CA.

thanks,

Jeremy
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby Tenkara Guides » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:21 pm

Start out with a line about the same length as the rod. If you want to go to a longer length line, line materials become more important. I have been building and using 16'-32' tapered flurocarbon lines that Eddie from Japan taught me how to make and once you get the hang of casting these long lines it is really quite easy. Chris at Tenkara Bum makes a cool hand tied tapered level line that is also worth looking at.

One other consideration is how much prevailing wind there is where you fish. The Eddie designed tapered flurocarbon lines slice through the wind like a hot knife through butter.
I have been using these lines with my Ayu a lot and they work very well for me. I use a 16' line with my 13' rod for mountain stream fishing. On larger rivers I have been using the 24' & 28' lines quite a bit lately and even on windy days (10+kts) these long lines have enough punch to cast directly into the wind.

There are some really interesting furled line options beyond what Tenkara USA offers so ask around some more and see what others are using. I prefer tapered furled flurocarbon lines so that is pretty much all I use but this is just one guy's preference and your milage may vary.

John
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby chorpie » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:00 pm

Tenkara Guides wrote:Start out with a line about the same length as the rod. If you want to go to a longer length line, line materials become more important. I have been building and using 16'-32' tapered flurocarbon lines that Eddie from Japan taught me how to make and once you get the hang of casting these long lines it is really quite easy. Chris at Tenkara Bum makes a cool hand tied tapered level line that is also worth looking at.

One other consideration is how much prevailing wind there is where you fish. The Eddie designed tapered flurocarbon lines slice through the wind like a hot knife through butter.
I have been using these lines with my Ayu a lot and they work very well for me. I use a 16' line with my 13' rod for mountain stream fishing. On larger rivers I have been using the 24' & 28' lines quite a bit lately and even on windy days (10+kts) these long lines have enough punch to cast directly into the wind.

There are some really interesting furled line options beyond what Tenkara USA offers so ask around some more and see what others are using. I prefer tapered furled flurocarbon lines so that is pretty much all I use but this is just one guy's preference and your milage may vary.

John


Did you guys ever post the guide on making your own furled fluoro lines, or is that still a WIP?
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby Tenkara Guides » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:05 am

chorpie wrote:
Tenkara Guides wrote:Start out with a line about the same length as the rod. If you want to go to a longer length line, line materials become more important. I have been building and using 16'-32' tapered flurocarbon lines that Eddie from Japan taught me how to make and once you get the hang of casting these long lines it is really quite easy. Chris at Tenkara Bum makes a cool hand tied tapered level line that is also worth looking at.

One other consideration is how much prevailing wind there is where you fish. The Eddie designed tapered flurocarbon lines slice through the wind like a hot knife through butter.
I have been using these lines with my Ayu a lot and they work very well for me. I use a 16' line with my 13' rod for mountain stream fishing. On larger rivers I have been using the 24' & 28' lines quite a bit lately and even on windy days (10+kts) these long lines have enough punch to cast directly into the wind.

There are some really interesting furled line options beyond what Tenkara USA offers so ask around some more and see what others are using. I prefer tapered furled flurocarbon lines so that is pretty much all I use but this is just one guy's preference and your milage may vary.

John


Did you guys ever post the guide on making your own furled fluoro lines, or is that still a WIP?


Still working on some prototype lines using some new materials. Once I get the prototypes finalized, there will be a video on our website showing both the lines as I was taught to make by Eddie and the new lines. EriK and I have been testing the prototypes a lot this past week & I am getting close to a final version. Hang tight, Info will be coming.

John
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby chorpie » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:29 am

coo, thanks
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby achilles38 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:57 am

Tenkara Guides wrote:Start out with a line about the same length as the rod. If you want to go to a longer length line, line materials become more important. I have been building and using 16'-32' tapered flurocarbon lines that Eddie from Japan taught me how to make and once you get the hang of casting these long lines it is really quite easy. Chris at Tenkara Bum makes a cool hand tied tapered level line that is also worth looking at.

One other consideration is how much prevailing wind there is where you fish. The Eddie designed tapered flurocarbon lines slice through the wind like a hot knife through butter.
I have been using these lines with my Ayu a lot and they work very well for me. I use a 16' line with my 13' rod for mountain stream fishing. On larger rivers I have been using the 24' & 28' lines quite a bit lately and even on windy days (10+kts) these long lines have enough punch to cast directly into the wind.

There are some really interesting furled line options beyond what Tenkara USA offers so ask around some more and see what others are using. I prefer tapered furled flurocarbon lines so that is pretty much all I use but this is just one guy's preference and your milage may vary.

John


I do get a decent amount of wind every afternoon/evening since I live in a semi-arid desert. We get a steady wind almost every later afternoon all summer and most of the fall, when it is usually 95-110 during the peak heat in the day. Last night it was still 93 at 9:00pm, haha, scorching. Will you be eventually offering the longer lines you mentioned that you have been creating from Eddie's technique. If they cut through a good wind I could definitely use it and would be more than happy to purchase a few different lengths. Tying my own lines is just not going to happen since I barely have enough free time to fish more than once a month. I currently only have the TUSA 3.5 level line and like it, but it seems too weak/light for casting a length over 15' with my Amago, unless I'm doing something wrong with my technique on a long line. I can cast the 15' with 4' tippet pretty much wherever I want with good accuracy and turn over, but I don't do so well when it gets longer, especially with the wind. Anybody know anywhere else to get furled flouro lines in lengths 20-25'? I've read many other comments about Chris' hand tied tapered level line and its quality, but will that work well with the Amago and in a length of 20-25'?

By the way, I'm sporting your Tenkara Guides sticker on my car window, the sticker you included in Eddie's book on basics you guys mailed me. Very cool design.

Thanks for the help,

Jeremy
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby Tenkara Guides » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:33 pm

I'll re-post an email I sent Jeremy so others that may have similar questions can hopefully find an answer.


The tapered lines Eddie Yamakawa taught me how to make have a very specific sweet spot with Tenkara USA rods.
The TUSA rods are softer in the tip sections than many of the rods that are made by Shimano, Diawa, Nissin, and Sakura. The TUSA rod line up casts the 16-24 ft lines very well, once you start getting into the 28-40 ft lines you need 7:3 or 8:2 rods in the 14-15 ft length to get the most out of the line.

When you use 20 + ft lines with 13-14 ft rods, there will be line on the water perhaps 4-6 feet. It is impossible to keep all the line off of the water, not because it's heavy, it is just simply the fact that the rod is not long enough to hold that much line up off the water. You really have to have a good feel for your rod and line combination to get good hooksets because you are having to pull slack line up when there is a strike. I use these really long lines for wide streams and very deep pools. The fluorocarbon lines sink pretty quick. I don't think they are a very good dry fly fishing line, Chris's tapered lines are a lot better for that.

Here is a link to a video we shot a couple of days ago. This is a 32 ft line being cast by a Diawa Sagiri rod. Keep in mind that this is a very light 13 ft rod designed to target fish in the 16" and under in size. By all logic, this rod should not be capable of managing such a long line. Just watch the video for yourself and you can be the judge. There was also about a 10-12 mph wind when we were filming this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrY_lSF6EM&feature=plcp

Eddie's long lines work so well in wind because the base sections are heavy with a very small diameter compared to mono or kevlar lines of a similar construction. This mass propels the rest of the line with some real punch. Casting these lines requires a very light hand and little power of the forward cast. Keep a relaxed grip on the rod and let the rod do all the work. The more power that you put into the rod will put more power down the line on the forward cast and if it is too much, the tippet gets a pretty violent shock and has a tendency to bounce back toward you. If this is happening, just relax your grip a little and don't put quite so much power into the forward cast.

It takes a little practice to get the hang of it so don't get all aggro if your casting is a little funky the first few times you cast these lines. If you see that your line is rolling out too quick on the forward cast, just watch it unroll to the tippet and gently reach forward with your casting hand keeping the rod tip up and that will take some of the velocity out of the line. Watch the video closely and you can see me doing this.

Hope this answers some questions. Chris makes a really good line it is just different than the lines I make. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, they are just very different. Twisted or furled lines are a love it or hate it line. EriK and I love them, our partner Rob, not so much, he prefers level lines in the under 20 ft lengths. Like I said one is not better than the other, they are just different.

The best thing I can suggest is that you get one of my lines and one of Chris's lines and test them to find out which one works best for your casting method and fishing conditions. You will probably find that one works better for you than the other or you will develop a preference for one line over the other depending on the conditions or water you are fishing that day.

If you have any more questions about my lines, don't hesitate to ask.

John

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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby tsegelke » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:25 pm

I have tried for about 6m now of tying my own furled lines. The challenge I have been running into is that they are too heavy. Any suggestion on Materials. It sounds like you are changing materials from one stage to the other, rather than just the thickness. If so, are you knotting your stages? That is not my prefference.
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby Tenkara Guides » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:22 am

tsegelke wrote:I have tried for about 6m now of tying my own furled lines. The challenge I have been running into is that they are too heavy. Any suggestion on Materials. It sounds like you are changing materials from one stage to the other, rather than just the thickness. If so, are you knotting your stages? That is not my prefference.


The lines I make use a formula developed by Eiji (Eddie) Yamakawa from Japan. The base sections are made up of 3 strands of 1X fluorocarbon tippet. The other sections are made of 2X and 3X tippet both 3 strand construction. The segments are joined together by Double Surgeon Knots or lately I have been using a barrel knot to get a smaller knot profile.

Each completed line section is 4 ft long.

An example of a 16 ft line would be 2 sections of 1X, 1 section of 2X, 1 section of 3X.

A 32 ft line would be 5 sections of 1X, 1 section 2X, 1 section 3X.

Stay tuned, I am working on a line making page on our website tenkaraguides.com. There will be the method I use as taught to me by Eddie, Chris Stewart will show his method and Karel Lansky & Jason Klass will show Karel's method. The hope is that by showcasing several different methods of line making, you can find one that works for you. Hopefully there will be more line makers contributing as this page gains some momentum.

John
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Re: furled line length for Amago?

Postby chorpie » Sun May 05, 2013 9:33 pm

Still writing this guide?
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