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 Post subject: Horn butts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:16 am 
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Maybe some will see this as silly, but I am serious. I looked through what few references on Japanese armor and weapons I have in an attempt to find out the significance of "deer" antler. I am trying to determine what quality of the animal is being identified with that "protects" the angler. The reason I am doing this is so that I can match that quality with a domestic (North American) species.

Let me explain - if the quality being captured is that of "provider" or "husband", then a more appropriate North American match might be elk horn rather than whitetail, mule deer, etc. I have tips of moose, elk, and deer, as well as antelope and bighorn. Just trying to determine which would be most appropriate to use.

Anybody have any idea what the deer antler "means"?


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 Post subject: Re: Horn butts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:33 pm 
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There are lots of stories and myths of the significance of deer in many cultures...primarily as a ready source of nuturing for body and soul ...a spirit helper in tough times as well as a food source. I remember reading Japanese folk tales about animals long ago and sadly can't remember much of it today. The Japanese believe the deer is a protector on the water and if you believe it ...it is. I'm told that Japanese naval vessels in WW2 often had a deer antler mounted in the crew's mess.
The thing about deer antler spikes used as handle butts on tamos is that the wedge goes naturally into your wading belt...you can do it without looking....and it doesn't hang up on the way out. I think that might be a major reason it is used so often.
Why can't you use whatever you want if it has significant meaning for you? Do it ...and post some pics for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Horn butts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 pm 
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I'll try finding out more about it. I don't know why they started using it, but deer antler is not used only for tenkara nets, and but also as "amulets" to protect anglers in the water as beads.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn butts
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Someone on another forum (FAOL) wanted to know about deer antler in relation to fishing. I directed them here but I can't find anything other than what has been stated in this thread. So has anyone come up with an answer?


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 Post subject: Re: Horn butts
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Today after a bit casting casting practice I had a bit of fun trying to find information about this tradition. I've never been to Japan and I do not read Japanese so my theory may have become completely misguided from following some anomalies in the written language. But, fwiw this is what I came up with.

I think there are probably many historical reasons for this tradition that are probably lost to time and we will never know the complete story.

I think Stephen was off on the right start. In ancient times cultures the world over viewed the deer as a source of life. The deer provided food, clothing, shelter and raw materials to make tools. The antlers were also viewed as a way of connection to the things of heaven. A connection to the spiritual parts of life.

http://www.ladyoftheearth.com/animals/the-deer.txt

Also in this document pondering the origins of the Japanese people it states that fish hooks made from deer horn have been found when studying archeological digs looking for pottery and other artifacts that would last through long periods of time that will aid in tracing migrations of people and culture and technology. There probably exist thousand of years of association between fishing and deer antler.

http://www2.gol.com/users/hsmr/Content/East%20Asia/Japan/History/roots.html

I also found other references that deer were viewed as symbolic of the annual cycle of life, the protectors of the forest and forest animals. The idea was something along this line - The deer's antlers grow during the warm months covered with velvet. Just as the land would be covered with growing crops. The fall arrived, the antlers fall off , just the crops would be removed from the land. During the winter months the antlers would decay feeding the forest with calcium just as the harvested crops would feed the people during the cold weather months. Then the cycle repeats. And just as the antlers will grow larger the next season there was hope that the crop harvest would also be larger the following year.

In Japan their was 「神鹿」`Shinka' the deer god - so their was thought that deer were divine. ( probably in other ancient cultures too) Kazuno is one way you see deer antler translated into English. You will also sometime see angle for antler or even the word corner for antler. computer translation sometimes is a mystery.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnarabungei.blog4.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-79.html

Just as deer were viewed as the source of life. So were rivers. After oxygen water is our greatest need. Rivers supplied the water we need and it was needed in just the right amount. Not enough and the rice crops failed from drought. To much water and floods came and the rice crops failed and villages were washed away.

Rives are often symbolized as dragons meandering through the mountains. And dragons are also usually depicted as having horns. Often they were drawn with very deer-like horns.

I happened up a picture of a piece of deer antler being shaped to be used as part of a net handle. The thing that caught my eye was this statement in the comments :

水神様の鹿角グリップ , Mizugamisama no Kadzuno gurippu , literally God of Water Deer Antler Grip. The poster was commenting that it would be a good net because it had the god of water deer antler grip.
I thought at first that it just meant the use of deer antler. After looking around a bit more there seems to be a bit more to it. It appears the handle only gets this name when you are using the fork in the antler to make the handle.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fflywings.naturum.ne.jp%2Fe1305600.html

god of water deer antler grip
Image

from a different web site
Image

So maybe my present thinking is correct and the god of water grip must have this forked shape or perhaps their is still a farther connection between deer antler in any form and the god of water. :?

In Japanese I often find there are many ways to write the same thing. I think I have found at least 4 ways of writing kebari as one example. Anyway, the god of water is written as 水神 Suijin. It can also be written as すいじん , Sui jin. But within this concept of a god of water there is another name for the god of fresh water or at least primarily fresh water that name is

みずがみ , Mizu ga mi, Mizukami ( note that is the god of water name used for the deer antler grip mentioned above)

You can read a little more about the god of water at these links;

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25E6%25B0%25B4%25E7%25A5%259E&ei=zddST--kNeXz0gG-n43mDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%25B0%25B4%25E7%25A5%259E%25E6%25A7%2598%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D933%26bih%3D476%26prmd%3Dimvns

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://homepage1.nifty.com/shincoo/m230kamisama.html&ei=zddST--kNeXz0gG-n43mDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CD8Q7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%25B0%25B4%25E7%25A5%259E%25E6%25A7%2598%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D933%26bih%3D476%26prmd%3Dimvns

In particular after looking at that second link, where it was made more clear to me that there is a link between dragons and rivers. I went back and looked at this aspect a bit more. I found these following names rather interesting.

龍 Ryū = dragon
渓流 Keiryū mountain stream , literally = river flow
流 Ryū flow, different written symbol , yet same phonetic as for dragon

I found it interesting that it is the same phonetic spelling for Dragon and for Flow. Looking a bit more at this connection. I found this web page about the Mystery of the Nine Headed Dragon.

http://blog.studio107.jp/2008/05/220.html

With this image , that pretty much looks like streams flowing from the central mountains. Dragons with rather deer-like horns too.

Image

Were in the comments I found this statement

さん 九頭龍はサクラマスのメッカで、だから中上流部にはヤマメも多いんです
San Kuzu ryū wa sakuramasu no Mekka de, dakara chū jōryū-bu ni wa yamame mo ōi ndesu
Nine dragon's head is a Mecca of masu salmon, upstream portion inside is not so many trout ( or Yamame)

So I have a connection between Dragons and Rivers and the abundance or lack there of of fresh water fish. Dragons which of course have horns or aka antlers.

So maybe my theory has some truth it or maybe it is completely out to lunch. And perhaps I would think something else after looking at it a bit more. But for me it has been a few of hours fun on a cold windy days following last evenings storms. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Horn butts
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 pm 
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A little more about the symbolism of deer and deer antler as protection.

Nara was the capitol of Japan in the 8th century. The Nara period is considered one of the most important in Japan's history. Nara was abandoned as the capitol when it was feared that the influence of Buddhism was becoming to strong.

Today in Nara sacred deer roam freely around the temples. There is a 330 year old annual ceremony when the deer are captured and have their antlers removed, Shika-no-Tsunokiri (Deer antler cutting ceremony) (鹿の角きり) , held during a 4 day period in Oct. This seems to be mostly done for the protect of people from deer that can become aggressive and for protection of the deer from one another during rut. As consolation the deer get a shot of Saki. :)

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/175e8/ed6ce/

http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/10/16/naras-deer-lose-their-antlers/

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/11/17/japan-deer-wrangling-and-antler-cutting-in-nara/

These deer are Sika Deer, Cervus nippon, also known as the Spotted Deer or the Japanese Deer, ( not to confused with another species the Sitka or black-tailed deer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sika_Deer

On to other talisman, amulet or charm uses of deer antler :

http://koki-arigato.cocolog-nifty.com/minimum_camp/2010/07/post-4d47.html
Deer antlers used for key chains, necklaces, and other objects:
鹿は古くから神聖視され、角は水難避けなどのお守りとして使用されてきたとあります。
.. deer are considered sacred since ancient times, and antlers have been used as a talisman, for avoiding poorly ( difficult/dangerous) water.

先っぽは大きいままにして、テントサイトの守り神として、テントの入り口にぶらさげ
Leave the larger tip, as the guardian angel of the tent, hanging at the entrance of the tent
( this use would seem to be closer to one of our older traditions of hanging a horse shoe over the door- way as a protection for the home) ;)

http://www.medaka.info/ayutamo.htm
Deer horn on an Ayu Tamo:
(鹿の角は水難の守り神)
(Horn of deer are said to be the guardian angel of poorly ( difficult/dangerous/rough) water.

http://www.geocities.jp/hagak1233/ayu2012.html
鹿の角には、魔除けや水難事故のお守りになるとか
.. the antler of the deer, to become a talisman or amulet of water accident · · · ·
川で事故にあわないようにと タモに鹿の角を付けるために これまでいくつか買って試してみた。
I tried to buy some antler of the deer for the Tamo to avoid accidents in the river.

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/dm57zx9b/archive/2012/1/3
この鹿の角には、水難の災いを防いでくれるとさせているそうです。
船乗りや漁師さんたちが、お守りに持っているそうです。
It is said that the horn of the deer goes out and prevents disaster on ( difficult) poorly water……

Our sailors and fishermen are likely to have this talisman.

From Celts to the Chinese deer held symbolic meaning. No doubt Chinese culture had a large influence throughout the orient. Clearly Buddhism from China resulted in Nara being abandoned as the capitol of Japan. And the idea of deer as sacred was probably strengthened due to this influence.

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/animal-symbolism-deer.html

The 7 Gods of Japan
http://www.seiyaku.com/reference/seven/shichifukujin.html#fukurokuju

Of the 7 gods – Fukurokuju … is the deity of wisdom, good luck, happiness, wealth, virility and longevity. By his side is usually a stag or deer (shika), a tortoise (kame) or a crane (tsuru), all symbolizing longevity.

Deer are also closely associated with Buddhism. Buddha is said to have given his first sermon at a deer park in India. Thus a common symbol of Buddhism are two deer facing the Wheel of the Dharma. Such as shown in this picture of the Temple at Jokhang, Lhasa , Tibet that dates to the 7th century.

http://www.greenkiwi.co.nz/footprints/photo/ph9912.htm

Search terms that turns up many similar results
水難鹿の角お守り Suinan shika no tsuno omamori = Difficult water deer horn charm
( btw - shika is not only the name of a species of deer. Shika is also simply the Japanese word for deer)

お守り鹿角 Omamori Kadzuno , Kazuno charm = charm deer antler
角は水難避けお守り Tsuno wa suinan sake omamori antler for difficult water avoidance talisman/charm/amulet.

Here is one example from a search using the last listed above term - its pretty interesting if you run it though an online translator. I would post a translated link but it messes up the formatting of the post text. Making the text very wide.
http://delica15.naturum.ne.jp/e1112967.html

Just realize if in the translation you see 'corner' it means an antler point. If you read poorly salmon it really means 'avoid difficult water kazuno charm. The term for salmon is not in the sentence, I was mislead by this before. However, there may be a sort of double meaning since salmonid fish, trout, are found in fast flowing or difficult water. :roll:

Of course we here have our own charms for good luck. A horse shoe is one and if you’re old enough you may recall when it was more common to see people here carrying a ‘lucky rabbit’s foot’ key chain. A tradition that also has an interesting heritage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%27s_foot

To paraphrase Forest Gump - that's all I have to say about this. ;)

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