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FAQ - Choosing a Tenkara Rod - Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:34 am 
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Any constructive suggestions on my questions? I really would like to find out... I've done the short drifts without an indicator, but still fish sections with a strong current going through, then an eddy, and the fish are stacked 1-2 feet deep in the current beyond. And indicator (which I really use more as a suspender, with a tuck cast) makes sense to me there. How would you fish that otherwise?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Last edited by jd_smith on Sun May 20, 2012 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Thanks JD, appreciate your response. I have two setups I use -- Amago with 18' of 4.5 line, and Ayu with 18' of 3.5 line. I started using the TenkaraBum hi-viz lines, but switched over to the new TUSA lines -- with 2 feet of the TenkaraBum at the end. Even though that line is highly visible, I just cannot see it when I'm casting far out. Our fish are fairly spooky, so I cannot approach to within 10' and cast from there.

I'll re-read your reply a few more times before asking more questions :) Thanks,

tom.

PS. Here's a photo of a typical place where I find indicator-less nymphing difficult. With an 18' line I can stand on outer-most rock near "A" and tuck cast an 18' line so that the indicator lands on "B". I have to tuck cast, otherwise my flies would go beyond the eddy line. If all goes well, I can manage my drift well and have caught up to 3 fish there. But the hole is deep there, and the fish don't take from surface, and they sit (AFAICT) a foot deep on the outer eddy line. I can and have caught plenty of fish with a wet-fly swing (without indicator) from "C", but that's not the challenge here...

Image


Last edited by tpalka on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:48 pm 
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jd_smith wrote:
tpalka wrote:
I've been doing a lot of fishing with an indicator, using the smallest foam football-shape ones.

In the winter I had to float the midges right in front of the trout snouts to get them interested. Often in 2' deep water. I could (and did) tie some reverse-hackle flies, but practically they were just red zebra midges in size #20. I had to fish with at least one bead-head to get it all down. Add to that having to stay at least 15-20' away to not spook the fish...

I tried fishing without an indicator, but found that I could only make short drifts before the flies got pulled towards me. Casting upstream was problematic, because soon I couldn't raise the rod high enough. So without an indicator I was limited to casting quarter-upstream, shorter drifts, and having to wade closer to the fish. And the fish were not visible either, though I had a good idea of where they were.

Now that spring is here, I still use an indicator with two droppers most of the time. Last Friday I picked up fish in 3" of water, and in 5' of water -- and again needed the indicator for the distance, longer drift, sinking time in the deeper.

I can see holding a tightline in closer-in nymphing/wet-fly swinging. But casting 25' across strong currents and trying to get 18-24" deep is still a mystery.

How would you do that kind of fishing without an indicator? I'd like to learn, I tried a few things, but nothing has been particularly effective so far...

tom.


Whew...(deep breath) Well Tom I guess I'm gonna try to field this one without being browbeaten by the tenkara purist's or the indicator police. Disclaimer: These are just my idea's and opinions. They are in no way a guide to what is and isn't the best or only way to fish. :)

Tom you've left some of the key details out and then there's always the constant changing variables with approaching moving water.

How long of rod and line are you using? A longer rod, if conditions allow, will give you more range. You mentioned that with a strait upstream cast you can't lift high enough to keep the slack out of your line. This "indicates" ;) to me that your fishing a line longer than your rod. A longer rod with a shorter or parallel line will give you more control, especially with getting you flys deeper. A longer rod allows you to suspend more line which in turn will allow you a better, unimpeded and/or un-accelerated drift. A tuck cast is always good to get the flies down faster. Also a powerful cast slapping the flies through the surface tension will get 'em down quicker. If there is a plunge in front of the lie use it to pull your offering down. Cast above or into it and drop your rod and let it suck in some line. Then lift your tip up enough to regain control of your drift and guide it through.

What line are you using? If the wind isn't a major factor a size 3 or 3.5 Hi-Vis level line is ideal. It will give you the best suspended drift (Hi-vis doesn't have anything to do with that BTW). Sometimes allowing just a few inches to a few feet(depending on water depth and speed) of your line to drift in the water will allow just enough surface tension to keep things from swinging toward you. If wind is an issue go to 4 or 4.5. If the wind is still an issue, go home! No seriously. Or just switch to a pvc line and a fly rod and accept that you cant do what you want to do today.

Ok now the dirty work. (Purists need not continue reading). Tom since your already fishing nymphs and some with beads (you heathen :lol: I'm just kidding Tom) this is what "I" would do. I would fish with (1)A larger fly that has more resistance to it to anchor the line a bit better. (2) An internally weighted nymph, only because I prefer internal weight as opposed to a bead. There is nothing about a bead that looks natural to a spooky fish (3) A hopper/dropper rig..... And hold on folks (4) Add a split shot or one of my favorites some tungsten putty. I like putty because I can pick any amount of weight I want to use, it doesn't hang up as bad as shot, and it can be shaped to look a lot more natural than a split shot.

Now I know there are a ton of variables that I've not covered, mentioned and or I have missed. And I hope others will chime in to help out. But to be quite honest with you I'm tired of typing for now. I hope that this part of the thread does continue, as I'm sure I'll have more to add to it later. Honestly, I would like to hear from both the "Tenkara purists" and the "tenkara as a tool" groups. What would you do in these less than ideal conditions?

JD



JD, posts like that is why I read this forum. Great info thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Tom

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Last edited by jd_smith on Sun May 20, 2012 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:33 am 
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I understand you are using a weighted nymphs and cool if you are catching fish but seriously a size 8 or 10 kebari in black and brown or black and ginger would be deadly there!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:11 pm 
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I recently put up a post on using the Slinky style of indicator for Tenkara lake fly fishing on one of our Tenkara boards and I was criticized for using an indicator at all, so it seems that no matter what you or I advocate doing someone is going to find fault with what ever you or I may say.

However you personally feel about the use of indicators is up to you. It is your fishing and you should be able to fish in any way that provides you with the most fishing enjoyment - as long as it is a legal fishing method. That being said, I feel the Slinky Indicator is probably the most Tenkara rod friendly indicator there is of all the different types and designs of indicators that there are out there. Here is a link to the post I put up on that other board if anyone is interested, including information on the Hang-And-Bob Technique, which is an indicator method that is especially useful for lake fly fishing: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2603&p=18877#p18877


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:43 pm 
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JD, thank you for the detailed reply. You hit the spots with fish on the head -- I fish this particular stretch quite often, 3-5 times a week. I took the photo from the bank, which is 5-6 feet above water level. It's hard to sneak up on the fish in spot "A", and often I'll blindly cast, lay on my belly, and then keep letting the current take my fly so that I can re-cast it. For that situation, I've used a 10' line with and without an indicator (tied up a floaty caddis dry for this purpose). Sometimes I can sneak downriver and not spook the fish... but it's difficult.

I often pick up fish from "C", and that spot actually produces better from the middle of the river -- I can wade around from the downstream.

But back to my main question: fishing in spot "B" without an indicator. Sounds like I should try a #10-12 kebari, cast it either right below the rocks or just beyond/upstream of them, and let the current drag the fly down. I can visualize that... but still having a hard time seeing how I can keep tension on the line to feel the fish take the fly. I'll try it anyways, and I know that swinging it into spot "C" should produce. I've been doing very well with a black body tinsel wrap kebari in size 18 -- drug behind a weighted fly. Even with all the BWO hatches going on right now, the fish having been hitting that fly well. With the rainbows I can often see the flash of their sides as they take, but the browns are too stealthy. And a foot deep and 20 feet away it's basically impossible to see anything...

Is it fair to say that the indicator-less fishing works better with shorter line lengths? With the line hanging basically near-vertical I can see how I'd feel the take.

In the crude sketch below, the circles are the rocks and the scene is looking upstream from point "C". I'm still unclear how I'd feel the fish take with that much line and the fly a foot+ deep. I'll try it out soon and see how it works out.

Image

Thank you again, JD, your thoughts are much appreciated. I'll report on the progress in the next few days,

tom.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:30 am 
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Well I would just say that with traditional kebari this may be an easier area to fish with the swing but some with tenkara and a strike indicator seems to be a disadvantage because mending does not really become an option. So there is the truth everything including tenkara has its limits, especially if fished with a style it was not intended for, like indicators and nymphs.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:21 am 
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I hope I don't come across as argumentative -- not my aim here, and I'm appreciating everyone's input.

In fact, there is no mending involved -- I can stand on rocks above "A", do a tuck cast with a long line, drop the indicator and the two flies (one weighted one not) into the eddy, and let them drift around, pretty much drag-free, for a good 1/2 minute. I haven't mended my line since I started tenkara in January :) I find that if I cast well, I get a hit within a few seconds anyways.

So my question was: how would I fish that spot efficiently with tenkara without indicator. If the answer is that tenkara isn't so good there, I'm fine with that. I'll still endeavor to fish without an indicator on better suited stretches, to me it's all about having more tools in my toolbox, being able to adapt the technique to best take advantage of a spot... And the suspender does allow me to do a set-depth long (40+ foot) drifts through a variety of water. Thanks,

tom.


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